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[alexacj] 30/3/2006 14:49

Afternoon LO....seems to me that the Insurance Industry as a whole is very "Old School".....certainly from the snippets that I have read Mr Emms comments seem to be reflective of Insurance company thinking......non the less VERY interesting for the likes of ACS in particular wouldn't you say....the speach could have almost been written by just copying ACS's strategic goals!
As I have stated before "the proof of the pudding...etc".....but all recent comments from Insurers (who after all pay all the CHO's invoices in the end)seem to be leaning very much towards the time being finally right for the ACS model to work.......it would save the insurers millions if they cut out a large % of GTA work and handed it to lower cost providers....what I'd really be interested in is a reasoned view why every insurer should not move down the ACS type route....I may be missing something but it seems a no brainer to me....and it also seems that the insurers may be finally waking up to that....wouldn't it be nice to see ACS sign NU or RBSI or BOTH!

[lord orphan] 30/3/2006 14:24

Very old school stuff from Mr Emms

[alexacj] 29/3/2006 18:01

Another piece supporting the views expressed by ACS at the interims....and more importantly seems to align the views of the insurers with those held by ACS........this from Post magazine.

Credit hire: a vision for change
March 2006




The general terms of agreement between insurers and credit hire operators are still relevant and can survive but only if they are dramatically improved, a leading practitioner warned.

Tony Emms, motor claims director at Zurich Financial Services, told delegates that too much is presently paid on credit hire.

He called for an open book approach to daily rates, referral fees and commissions. "Because referral fees and commissions still continue, invoices are more heavily scrutinised by insurers and are taking longer than necessary to process," Mr Emms said.

He also questioned whether rates were appropriate, and stated that he is currently involved in meetings to try to change them.

Regarding the sector's future, Mr Emms said he would like to see a move to more of a supplier relationship with selected credit hire companies, and more mutual trust between insurers and credit hire operators. He envisaged a world of borderline payments, controls and transparency with invoices for the right car for the right need.

However, Mr Emms pointed out the negative effects if the GTA disappeared. He warned that there would be "a mess", with more adversary between insurers and credit hire operators, less certainty within the market and an increase in litigation.

"The current position is not ideal - it's a marriage of inconvenience, really - but I think if we could reduce expense and risk we could reshape the sector," Mr Emms said.


Makes you wonder why they don't just sign up ACS....!!

[elmfield] 28/3/2006 18:29

I am sitting on a small loss of about but think I will stick it out and keep the faith in the A Team- hope they do not let us down!

[alexacj] 28/3/2006 09:14

Good luck scburbs.....I would think that you will have every opportunity to re-enter prior to next results......there appears to be someone mopping up some fairly large packets of stock at the moment but the price remains weak continuing to suggest a seller in the wings........the only action I can think of to change this is if they manage to sign up NU or RBSI(see above article)....then that becomes a whole new ball game!

[scburbs] 27/3/2006 11:13

Morning All, I am out at a small loss (20.62p vs 20.88p) as I need the cash elsewhere, but may well be back as I think these are undervalued. Good luck to all holders.

[alexacj] 24/3/2006 12:12

Thought some may be interested in this snippet....I have copied part of an interview with HHRs CEO Mark Jackson that was posted on the HHR thread by Lord Orphan(you can read the full article on that thread)...I'm sure he won't mind me reproducing part!The interesting comment is on the Insurers who he now sees as accepting Credit Hire and anticipates more of them now showing a willingness to use CHO.This seems to back up the comments from the ACS interims!

"The use of credit-hire has also fundamentally changed, he says, so much so that most of the major motor insurers now use it - with the others considering it as an option.

"(Royal Bank of Scotland Insurance subsidiary) Direct Line traditionally didn't use credit hire because it did not provide courtesy cars and Churchill (which RBSI acquired in 2003) traditionally did. Now, it is a mix and match. RBSI tends to outsource its non-fault accident - uninsured loss recovery - cases to solicitors or accident management companies and use credit hire to a greater or lesser extent, so we get quite a bit of business through that."

General direction

Considering the stance of the other motor insurance giant, Norwich Union, Mr Jackson adds: "NU to date has not used credit-hire but since it bought the RAC I believe it is considering it because the latter did quite a lot of credit hire. So everyone is moving towards the offering - I don't know of any underwriter that is not considering it."

"With more than one million non-fault claims, this means the market is only 25% penetrated, so our mid-term strategy is to stick to our knitting and do more of the same."

[alexacj] 23/3/2006 14:54

Hi Trixter.....I'm sure they have...but I also hope that ACS have an agreed timescale where they will introduce a dual approach.....this imho is as important as maintaining their strategic approach.Again from what I read Insurance companies seem to operate with extreme arrogance toward their suppliers (and sometimes their customers!)....and in this type of environment the obvious solution to their problem is often overlooked as unacceptable, as it involves paying a third party for something they may think they can continue to handle themselves....so whilst to my simple mind the solution is staring them in the face,the words horse and water also come to mind......the stance ACS have taken SHOULD prove to be an oustanding choice....but if insurers fail to react then we should join the mainstream party and extract revenue via GTA rates and customers via manufacturers and dealerships etc.......don't forget that even there where most of the other CHO's operate they still only account for 30% of the available business....so in my mind this is either a HUGE win if the insurers finally wake up or a slight tweak to the business model and a large win......either scenario looks attractive....aimho!

[trixter] 22/3/2006 19:39

alex - good post as always and IMHO ACS have this on the agenda (reading between the lines of the last results).

[alexacj] 22/3/2006 19:33

That is also my understanding LO not only for ACS but for any of the CHO's who have contracts directly with the insurers......the company that appears to gain the most from this is the likes of ACE with ACS gaining the least....but non the less an increase is better than nothing.My reading of the protracted negotiations have been that the ABI have resisted any form of increase to the point that the AMA gave notice that they were going to go to arbitration whereas NACHO were not willing to go that far and insisted on a mediator.There appears to be a divide between the NACHO approach (primarily Drive Assist and AI Claims) and AMA (primarily Helphire and ACE).....the former going for the cooperative approach and the latter for the confrontational approach.Reading the snippets I have ,the insurers seem as anti CHO's as ever....even refusing to give business to repairers who refer work to CHO's.....so whilst the CHO industry is a legitamate one as defined by the legal challenges they appear to be continuing to delay payment and even argue over the agreed rates.In a weird sort of way I see this as a real opportunity for ACS....due to the fact that IF they(the insurers) really want to deny business to those CHO's who overcharge and overclaim in their eyes (i.e. apply full GTA rates)then why not give all of their claims handling to an ACS type of operator and starve the others of any work......and insist on the ability to only pay until an intervention service is offered by their appointed supplier....e.g. ACS......this being said ACS should not wait forever to see if the insurers catch on to the seemingly obvious way of starving the higher cost CHO's of business and I hope that the directors have some sort of timescale to revert to a dual approach model that would take advantage of the seemingly current profitable business models of perhaps Drive Assist & HHR.....but..... IF the insurers do catch on then this company will play on a whole new field...isn't that food for thought!

[lord orphan] 22/3/2006 18:47

My understanding is that ACS has separate agreements with insurers which are below GTA rates for third party intervention and authorised hire. I hope these can be renegotiated following this announcement.

[alexacj] 22/3/2006 17:16

FYI(taken from the AMA website).....new rates are now agreed!

21 March 2006


Following negotiations and mediation days new GTA car groups and rates have been agreed. GTA subscribers are being advised today with a circular letter stating:

Our circular letter of 10 February 2006 advised all GTA subscribers that, following a day of mediation, further work was underway to translate the proposed principles into actual rates.

This work has been completed and, flowing from another mediation day on 7 March, the negotiators for insurers, AMA and NACHO have agreed proposed new maximum GTA settlement rates to take effect for all new claims in respect of car hires starting from 1 April 2006.

A copy of the new car vehicle groups and the maximum settlement rates that can apply is attached. Subscribers will see that standardisation has been introduced to the car groups with clear vehicle examples for each group.

The Technical Committee will set up a mechanism for determining the correct vehicle group for any cars that do not feature as examples in the vehicle groups i.e. where the examples given leave room for doubt as to the correct group for a car that currently does not feature and new models of cars joining the market.

Further work is near completion on new groups and rates for motorcycles, taxis and commercial vehicles. It is anticipated that groups and settlement rates will be finalized early in April. They will be reported to subscribers as soon as possible and are intended to take effect for all new claims in respect of hires from 1 May 2006.

If you have any comments on the settlement rates please respond by Wednesday 29 March. The GTA remains a voluntary protocol and credit hirers and insurers are free to do their own deals about settlement rates on a bilateral basis outside the GTA. If you are not prepared to accept these settlement rates and wish to leave the GTA please let us know by Friday 31 March at the latest. In the absence of responses it will be assumed that you wish to continue as a GTA subscriber on the basis of the new settlement rates. You should note that these rates are the maximum rates applicable for the settlement of claims under the GTA and that credit hirers are free to set the headline rate for the hire of the car at their own discretion.

Subscribing credit hirers' current car rates for the settlement of car hire claims, as shown on the GTA website, will no longer be valid for new hires after 31 March 2006 and individual rates will not be updated. Instead, an entry will be made on the GTA website covering all CHO subscribers to show the maximum settlement rates that can apply on and after 1 April 2006, along the lines of the attached tables. The other vehicle groups will be added as soon as settlement rates are confirmed.

The new settlement groups and rates will be operative until end June 2007 when they will be reviewed. In the intervening period it is intended to explore the use of an expert(s) to prepare data that might assist with the next rate review. This proposal will be developed in the Technical Committee later this year in the expectation that the 2007 rate review can be completed well before June 2007, with any new settlement rates taking effect from 1 July 2007.

There have been significant costs incurred in the mediation and in ongoing administration of the GTA. As advised last year, it is intended to introduce a charge for subscribing to the GTA. The GTA Technical Committee will be considering this further once the rate review has been completed.

[scotswhaehae] 14/3/2006 09:18

Another nice little tick up!

[alexacj] 10/3/2006 12:32

LOL....yes I'd love the price short term to be lower....not only to buy up cheap stock but also to get rid of the seller.....EVO still the only MM selling stock ...again!....so I assume they have a seller and with current activity levels in this company it will take them forever to clear the overhang....so I remain of the opinion that the MMs should drop the price,get rid of the excess and move back up....no real "emphasis" on the lost contract apart from the fact that we have no current clarification of the size or impact so it concerns me that if it were of little consequence to the company's figures why not state that within their results....they didn't....so I can only assume that it may well have an impact.....remember the Direct Line business....when they lost that they initially stated all was well....no reference to the impact on the business.....but lo & beyhold a few months later it was clear all was not well and delays in contracts coming on stream were blamed.....sound familiar.....I'm not suggesting anything of similar magnitude....merely indicating why I'm asking the question of our resident guru...he was the only one who highlighted the Direct Line problems well before the loss was even announced....I'm hoping he can enlighten us again!

[scotswhaehae] 10/3/2006 11:59

as I said...I'm in LLOY for the bid! So yep, coining it (at the moment!)...

also in MMC and SEA...both heavily undervalued!

your emphasis on the winding down contract rather than on all the new ones still intrigues me though..u really do seem to want this lower...lol! my own 'guess' is that we have probably bottomed and shoud see 25p plus fairly soon...

[alexacj] 10/3/2006 11:32

Agreed.....well that's twice within 2 weeks that we've agreed....better not make it a habit!....anyway....rumour or not...fact or not....if you are still in Lloy then you did better than me I sold out for a few hundred profit and if I'd held 2 more days then it would have been a few thousand profit...as you say it's all in the timing!
LO....any details on the lost contract...is it Highway...if so what impact should we expect.....thanks in advance.

[scotswhaehae] 10/3/2006 11:01

thanks alexacj..I think!

As for lloyds...well its in today's national press again actually, albeit a day late!

you know..bb's are just as much for opinions as supposed new facts...

and getting timing right is probably the key!

[alexacj] 10/3/2006 10:06

LOL Scots....nice to see you back....been reading a few of your posts on Lloy....seems to have the same theme...."takeover rumours strong"....but surprise surprise no facts to back it up!......anyway if you care to read back you will see that I agreed with you on the potential drop of the share price ...so no arguments there....where I disagreed was on your shouting "fire" from the side and failing to back up any of your views.....seems like a bit of a theme with your posts.....whether they be negative or positive they all lack a degree of fact......anyway each to their own....with regard to ACS....my long term views have not changed.....and unless something unknown occurs I still remain of the opinion that this company is capable of earnings that are substantially higher than today....the value of the sector is huge with only 30% (ish) currently contracted....it will only take a few % points of positive margin growth (and they have stated that the next half will be biased toward the higher margin hire's) to VASTLY improve their PBT......the insurers are finally accepting "outsourcing" as a positive for their business....I think that it is a matter of waiting.....frustrating I know!
With regard to my recent comments....the share price is showing real short term weakness....I think that's plain to see.....so why not just bite the bullet and drop the price....and yes I would most certainly buy more.....From your comments it appears that you no longer hold stock (if you ever did in the first place!)....but if you do hold good luck to you....I think you will gain here eventually.......p.s. are you sure you are not another of Fusebox's many i.d.s...LOL....anyway good luck to you Scots....keep posting!

[scotswhaehae] 10/3/2006 09:35

mr alexacj...I got stick from you for suggesting a fall a few weeks ago...now you seem to have an agenda to talk the price down!

Doesnt bother me cos it will have zero impact...but why the negativity since the results!

The results were perfectly good enough to justify a substantially higher share price going forward...

I just find it amusing I suppose...as I say, I'm not bothered but maybe your bearish comments either have an ulterior motive...or are simply poor timing!

Best wishes!

[nailbiter] 10/3/2006 07:13

Lord O, welcome back. Any view on the value of the lost Highway contract?

[alexacj] 08/3/2006 14:09

I really don't know why the MMs don't just do their job and drop the price to 12p-15p and create a market...leaving it at this level with a slow drip down will never encourage buyers and there doesn't appear to be a great deal of selling either .....this is just stagnation.

[wiganer] 08/3/2006 13:59

Sub-20p looks pretty inevitable now.

[alexacj] 01/3/2006 17:09

Well some very strange price action from the MMs....yesterday there was an MM buy.... today we had 1 sell of 50000 and buys just over 100000 and the price fell over 3%....evo led the charge down so I can only think that they have a seller on their books....may well be the ex director....if so we have some 3 million shares to shift......imho DO NOT buy or top up if you were thinking of doing until the price is well below 20p....and if we can get some decent selling as well we may see capitulation in the price!....KBC seem to have given up being a market maker on this stock.....they moved completely off the bid & offer yesterday and didn't open at all today....(confirmed KBC no longer a market maker here....it must have been their buy to finally close out their position)....all very interesting!
edit.....further sell of 50000 just showing(I'm assuming a sell due to todays action but the price was 21.25p at 16.13...so may have an outside chance of being a rollover buy?).....more snow and ice on the way....which ironically should prove to boost turnover with ACS!