Wasps 22 Discussion Threads

[ozzie_dog] 23/9/2022 08:20

@pusb I know that it is from the Coventry Telegraph (CT). I even said that on the Wasp's rugby forum and also provided a link here, below in an earlier post, the additional information was added because the link was to a CT article that was continually updating as more information became apparent. All I am trying to do is share information, if everyone does that we will all be more informed, surely it is in the interests of all us bond holders to post information for each other, don't you agree?

[pusb] 22/9/2022 23:06

Coventry Council passed on a request for funding to the West Midlands Combined Authority which got no further than informal discussions. Locally and politically, using more tax payers funds to bail out Wasps would be pretty unacceptable - especially given the football club’s long running state aid legal argument.

[bondholder] 22/9/2022 20:18

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09435073/chargesDetails of the first legal mortgage registered at HM Land Registry over the stadium lease.

[barondene] 22/9/2022 19:43

Coventry Council is probably taking advice to see how they can preserve WASPS and the Stadium

Can they really allow this to fail after all their hype on the project?

[grahamg8] 22/9/2022 19:14

More on the right for Coventry City Council to repossess the stadium. Although we might be in trouble on the grounds of caveat emptor - let the buyer beware, if there was a get out clause we could end up with nothing even if the bonds were sold with rights to an asset. There are forces in our favour. Unfair contract terms take into account all of the documents relating to a sale/purchase agreement. If the bonds were sold with a prominent promise of asset backing - the stadium lease, but the small print on page 3265 says the opposite, your asset could be non existent when you try to rely on it. We could potentially argue that is an unfair contract.

Also I'm curious about the terms under which Coventry CC recovery would take place. Common sense would suggest that as they are getting back a valuable asset they should pay a reasonable fee for it. And if the contract has no compensation term then the solicitors who drew it up would surely be liable for negligence.

[bondholder] 22/9/2022 17:24

Consider this for a moment. All leases granted to flat owners contain a forfeiture clause in the event of bankruptcy . Do you think that the mortgage companies forfeit their security when a bankruptcy happens? No they don't and in fact freeholders don't generally attempt forfeiture because they are advised that the court would grant relief providing the trustee or whoever controls the property agrees to be bound by the lease terms.

[barondene] 22/9/2022 17:11

HMRC have given notice of "their intention to issue" is not the same as "HMRC have issued"

More confusing words?

[pusb] 22/9/2022 17:08

I’m not wrong that the council are consulting lawyers. I am not wrong that the head lease should return to the council, that is made clear in the prospectus. The prospectus says that taking this to the courts may be necessary if the council claim forfeiture. You advise that we shouldn’t be worried about that because of previous case law, but why should the council be consulting with lawyers if not to consider forfeiture - unless it is to receive the same advice they could have got from this forum for nothing?

[bondholder] 22/9/2022 16:30

Simply wrong. See my post below.

[pusb] 22/9/2022 15:38

Coventry Council are consulting with lawyers about the prospect of Wasps going into administration, at which point the head-lease should return to them leaving little security against the bonds.

[pusb] 22/9/2022 15:19

Ozzie-dog. Your report from this mornings meeting is a straight lift from the Coventry Telegraph’s rugby reporters article.

[pusb] 22/9/2022 15:07

I think the two statements are contradictory - the first statement refers to a singular offer from a singular lender being at an advanced stage, the second refers to a number of interested parties being at advanced stages (we have heard that at least three times now!)

Directors have been economical with the truth in the past and are hardly going to tell the players the whole story. I’m not sure though how things can move fast whilst at the same time playing a waiting game. Given HMRC’s approach with Worcester and HMRC’s probable understanding on the position with the bonds and possible bondholder instituted related action, it’s a surprise that Wasps are surprised that HMRC acted first.

[ozzie_dog] 22/9/2022 11:24

From this morning's meeting:

So, as we know, Wasps players and staff were called to a 9am meeting this morning to discuss the club's situation.

We understand this lasted around 20 minutes and people were told the club was in advanced talks and things will move fast with the next step - with the overall tone being a 'hopeful' one. But there is a waiting game to be played.

There was a feeling relayed that HMRC's issuing of a winding-up order came as a surprise.

There's no suggestion at all that the game against Bath will not go ahead, and training is continuing as normal today before the group travels south for Friday night's game at The Rec.

[ozzie_dog] 22/9/2022 10:42

I do not think that the 2 statements necessarily contradict each other, it could easily be the case that Wasps have been negotiating with more than one party, but only one of the parties has actually made an offer. For example party A might have offered refinance at 8.5%, and party B might still be in ongoing discussions with a refinance package at 8%.

[pusb] 22/9/2022 10:31

From a Wasps forum “ Compare two Wasps statements:-

2 September “ The Issuer has made progress with these alternative options and confirms that it has received an offer which would see the Bonds fully redeemed on completion of this refinancing. Discussions with this lender are at an advanced stage.”

21 September “ This measure does not mean the business is in administration but provides a crucial period of grace to continue negotiations with a number of interested parties to secure the long-term future of the group. These negotiations have been going on for some time, are in advanced stages and we are hopeful of securing a deal. ”

These statements are totally at odd with each other, the first implying to bondholders a single offer from a single lender is almost in place, the second that there have been multiple alternative arrangements being negotiated without the knowledge of the bondholders.

Disingenuous at best.

[ozzie_dog] 22/9/2022 10:13

There might be an update of what is going on very soon. Refinance info to be given to @WaspsRugby players and staff today after application for administration "We have arranged for our restructuring partner, FRP, together with board members, to be available at the training ground in person today at 9am.

hxxps://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/wasps-live-administration-latest-bath-25078505

[finkie] 22/9/2022 09:07

It’s gone sadly lot of these boards muster support but you are screwed and need to be to make the deal attractive for the next acquirer, thank goodness I got a tip to sell out a few years ago.

Btw bought joules too and that appears to be toast also.

[bondholder] 22/9/2022 09:04

Don't worry about forfeiture. Courts are very amenable to applications for relief especially on behalf of mortgage holders (such as bondholders) due to the obvious unjust enrichment that would result if the relief was not granted and a property reverted to the freeholder. In the very few cases forfeiture succeeds there is often an overseas leaseholder who is unaware of proceedings and fails to apply for relief.

[grahamg8] 22/9/2022 07:45

Agree we need to appoint our own receiver not accept one chosen by Wasps. Elsewhere it has been suggested that if Wasps go into admin then the lease reverts to Coventry City. If this is the case and it was not clear in the prospectus then we could make a case of fraud. Admin could possibly avoided by a creditor voluntary agreement, thus hanging onto the lease and being in control of its sale.

[barondene] 22/9/2022 07:26

There is 2 week period of protection against creditor action

The Bond Holders need to take control of Wasps Finance with their own Receiver asap

[mistt] 21/9/2022 22:07

This morning, HMRC made a decision to give their intention to issue a winding-up order against the club for outstanding monies owed. Due to this, the board have taken the decision to enter a Notice of Intention to Appoint an Administrator (NOI).

This is not the same as entering into administration, but it is a method by which the club and business can continue to trade whilst it finalises its negotiations with regards to the refinance package which the board have been working on.

So might end up as admin, but not there yet.

[jumpman1] 21/9/2022 16:56

Looks like admin is on the cards



Breaking: Wasps face relegation after filing notice in the High Court of their intention to appoint an administrator, as the financial crisis in English club rugby deepens.

[pusb] 19/9/2022 14:14

Wasps opening home match attendance 20% down on last year. Can’t give potential lenders much confidence.