Vianet Share Discussion Threads

[cockneyrebel] 05/2/2013 16:50

VNET was one of SCSW's Naps in the Jan issue.

They've yet to do a proper write up on the stock and give it a formal tip, the only one in their naps that hasn't had the full tip yet.

SCSW out this weekend - a good chance VNET features heavily imo.

All imo/dyor etc.

CR

[masurenguy] 25/1/2013 15:30

Evem more reason for pub and bar owners to minimise wastage and to optimise profits on beer sales by utilizing the facility to enable them to reconcile volume with revenue !

Beer sales dry up as tax throttles the pint

Brits drank 138m fewer pints - or 1.5m a day - in the final 3 months of 2012 as beer sales fell 4.7% last year. The British Beer & Pub Association blamed a mix of rising government tax and cash-strapped consumers. "These figures show that the government needs to stop its full-on tax assault on our vital beer and pub industry. We have had tax hikes of 42% since March 2008," BBPA chief executive Brigid Simmonds said on Friday. So-called on-trade sales at pubs and restaurants and off-trade sales at shops and supermarkets fell almost equally, as the industry felt the effect on consumers of worries about the economy and muted wage growth. The government has been raising the tax on beer by 2 percentage points above the inflation rate each year and plans to do so until 2014/15. In November, lawmakers saw a vote to review the policy rejected by the treasury. Drinkers pay 42% more tax on beer since the so-called tax escalator was introduced in 2008, during which period 6,000 pubs have closed, industry research showed. Groups such as Greene King and JD Wetherspoon have been among the better-performing pub companies throughout the downturn, helped by value-led food and drink offers chiming with cost-conscious customers. Beer sales fell 3.1% in 2011.

[jeffian] 16/1/2013 10:19

Among tenants, the suspicion will always remain that the principal function of Brulines - even the more sophisticated iDraught version - is to 'catch them out'. It is interesting, however, that almost all the pubco's are building a bigger franchised estate within their tenanted estate (i.e. where the tenant gets a share of turnover but the pubco carries the running costs, does the product buying and sets the prices). MARS now have something like 500 pubs on their new Retail Agreement, ETI have around 300 'Beacon' pubs and Spirit and GNK are developing and growing a franchise offer. This is where iDraught comes into its own; indeed, it's almost a 'must-have' where costs and expenditure are being controlled centrally.

[0rb1t] 16/1/2013 08:08

iDraught got a mention in yesterday's Spirit Pub Company plc - Q1 IMS. Spirit Pub recently ordered 400 iDraught terminals from us:



"We have also completed the rollout of the iDraught dispense system across our Leased pubs which should help to drive sales and deliver product quality improvement for our licensees."

"Our plans for our Leased estate remain on track as we look to help our licensees to develop their retail offers which we will support with continued innovation such as our franchise trials which are now underway. "

[0rb1t] 16/1/2013 07:31

From JD WETHERSPOON PLC pre-close this morning:

In the year to date (24 weeks to 13 January 2013), like-for-like sales increased by 7.6%.

Doesn't directly impact VNET but shows the pub industry is doing OK still.

[masurenguy] 14/1/2013 21:30

These are just gross generalisations about AIM companies. There are plenty of UK AIM listed companies that have crashed or become insolvent over the past 5 years with management no more trustworthy than some overseas based companies.

For example two overseas AIM listed companies which I am currently invested in are GBO (Greek based) with business accross many markets and TPL (Canadian) an oiler with both assets and production in Kazakhistan, Tajikistan and Uzbeckistan and neither of them pay dividends either. I consider both to be good investment opportunities on their individual merits. I think that it is absurd for people to employ blanket generalisations as a basis for their investment decisions since this can often result in throwing
the baby out with the bathwater.

[cockneyrebel] 14/1/2013 21:06

You used to be have to have a couple of years priofitable trading to list on AIM I think.

Today all you need is to be able to work a pencil with modest aptitude.

CR

[jamielein] 14/1/2013 20:25

Thanks CR, everything you say makes a lot of sense.

I generally look for growth and dividend paying small cap shares and haven't really focused on where they're based. It appears almost all of the shares that fit my criteria are actually UK based though - there's the odd one or two that aren't, such as Globo. I also sometimes make exceptions to the dividend part, for example Tracsis (though they do now pay a small dividend).

I'm surprised at how many companies on AIM have a terrible track record and make no profit at all, yet people still buy their shares.

Jamie

P.S. quite surprised at VNET's valuation. I think there's another large seller as a company that has these prospects on a PE of just 12 seems wrong. Even based on last year's 15% growth of earnings, I would have thought it should be on a PE of around 15, so £1.50 at least.

[cockneyrebel] 14/1/2013 17:33

Re foreign AIM jamielein - yep, there might be exceptions - but how can you be sure you've identified one when it's stacked against you on the odds? For everyone you get right you'll probably get 10 wrong imo. You just don't know when you're investing in a bad one imo.

Go where the odds are more in your favour and buy UK fully listed imo. If you buy AIM make sure they are UK and pay a divi imo. If you buy UK non divi AIM remember it's likely to be riskier and more of a punt and adjust your stake accordingly. When you buy foreign AIM you may aw well put the money on a horse imo, even if you know nothing about horse racing - the odds are better.

CR

[jamielein] 14/1/2013 13:56

Yes, and on topic, I did join the VNET party a little late (early morning today), but can see the potential here. It's definitely not rated for growth, though the company isn't without its risks. We need to see a few US contracts imo before this really takes off.

Wish I'd have done more research a month or two ago when I saw them mentioned on PaulyPilot's blog!

[interceptor2] 14/1/2013 13:29

Sorry for O/T on such a positive day for VNET. But...

There might be the odd exception, but for anyone still considering a AIM-Listed overseas company, take look at the GNG thread. A small chinese AIM stock that has changed the view of many respected posters. Chinese AIM stocks are the worst imv.

Back to VNET now I promise.

ic2...

[jamielein] 14/1/2013 13:21

Surely there must be some exceptions to this though? They can't all be bad, though I agree, I generally avoid them unless there'a a very good investment case.

[paulypilot] 14/1/2013 12:59

johnv,

Yes very much so!
I lost £250k on an Israeli AIM-Listed company a few years ago,and there have been others too.

P.

[johnv] 14/1/2013 12:49

PP, you sound as though you have learnt this from experience.

[paulypilot] 14/1/2013 12:42

I also avoid all AIM-Listed overseas companies.

Why would any decent foreign company list on a foreign (to them), largely unregulated, stock market (i.e. AIM)??? That answers the question as to why you should never invest in any AIM foreign company. Just IMO.

PP.

[interceptor2] 14/1/2013 08:47

EROS were the last overseas listed stock I invested into some time ago. Why bother with Chinese or Indian stocks when there are so many good opportunities in the UK with overseas exposure. Much safer believing the accounts in UK stocks imv.

Pleased to see the buying interest in VNET today.

ic2...

[johnv] 14/1/2013 08:46

CR, true about foreign based aim, none have done very well.

[cockneyrebel] 14/1/2013 08:41

The divi here is a big plus imo. Aim co's that pay a divi tend to be far more reliable than non-divi payers imo.

CR

[cockneyrebel] 14/1/2013 08:38

I don't like Eros johnv = indian based AIM - not a place to be imo, can you remember a foreign AIM co that did well for its shareholders? Rare if you can imo.

CR

[jeffian] 13/1/2013 21:17

That is absolutely correct IMHO. 'EBITDA' just means 'gross profit before any expenses are knocked off' and is completely meaningless IMHO. I can understand why companies would like to take Amortisation and Depreciation out of the equation as they are non-cash items (although even that is arguable if a capital asset actually has to be written down or off) but the rest are real cash expenses that eat into profit. In any accounts, the page I pay most attention to is 'Cashflow'. If the cash isn't coming in, you can't hide it however hard you try.

As for VNET, I've been around for a bit longer than most of you and the bit that's beginning to excite me most is the contactless payment system highlighted by someone above. iDraught gives the Brulines business a new lease of life but it can only go so far. I'm happy to see that they're using that solid foundation to develop into a real growth area.

[johnv] 13/1/2013 20:57

PP & others,

Talking about nap tips, what puts you guys off Eros, is it the large intangibles?
I read a accountancy book for investors which said any company which keeps on talking about its EBITDA...then forget it. EROS seems to mention it a lot.

[interceptor2] 13/1/2013 19:56

Thanks for the link paulypilot, it certainly sounds like they have and are in the process of alot of groundwork, and are ready to take advantage of some significant opportunities.

The chart looks interesting, going sideways in a narrow band between 96p to 110p since April. And then we had the sudden upmove on the news of Solera selling their final holdings. Even though I was tempted to buy in at 105p, I decided to await a catalyst, which duly arrived last week.

ic2...