Uil Share Discussion Threads

[vacendak] 03/4/2019 13:09

A lot of NAV updates recently.
Is it because it is going up? :)

More seriously, publishing more than once a week would likely help potential investors; so I am not complaining.

[vacendak] 01/4/2019 09:26

Going up strongly over the past few days. All relative of course.
AfterPayTouch gained nearly 7% overnight, this might have helped the curent (as in pixel time) 2.50 p increase for UTL

We also had some directors "buy" recently too (also for UEM).

[Edit]
Nice NAV update today too.

[vacendak] 21/3/2019 09:20

The NAV has been doing well recently too.

Of course this does not improve the discount, but it makes it worse in a good way.

[russman] 21/3/2019 08:01

Buybacks are positive.
More buybacks please.

[ceaserxzy] 12/3/2019 18:59

It is good to see that utl is finally doing something about the big discount by buying back its own shares at almost half price of the NAV.

[russman] 07/3/2019 16:48

Finish the ZDP program.

[vacendak] 05/3/2019 20:45

Taking on more debt, even though they are selling the 2026s at a premium... which only lowers slightly the effective coupon.



We shall see what they bought with it, they might mention it in the next factsheet.
Magic beans? :)

[russman] 28/2/2019 17:15

Just postpone the ZDP program.

[vacendak] 28/2/2019 12:14

The short answer is they no longer care.
The investment team, directly or indirectly, owns 60% of the company and they do not seem to mind.

Also, it is one of the last few split-capital trusts around. The update to the rules some years ago forced them to count the ZDPs as "debt", making the whole thing appear ultra-leveraged, which in a way it is. They are now "happy" that the gearing is below 100%.

Were the ZDPs to disappear or be reclassified as shares, I guess professional investors would buy.

There was an update in the past (factsheet or report, I cannot remember) that mentioned that the buy-backs were adversely lowering the free float (whatever ICM/ICICM/etc. let people play with) which made the spread look even more horrible. As you can guess, a wide spread puts people off from dipping their toes.

The NAV is also not that easy to estimate, it is not as bad as it used to be, but UTL holds a lot of stuff that, even if listed, is not traded that much; so again impeding the price discovery mechanism, wide spread, etc.

The whole discount thing is therefore caught in a vicious circle. Absent a reorganisation of the capital structure, I do not see a way out of it.
Ideally, if the NAV keeps on ticking up, it could attract "momentum" investors, so maybe, just maybe a subsequent share price catch up.

[russman] 28/2/2019 08:52

Still no news how UTL could minimise the NAV discount.

[vacendak] 25/2/2019 10:07

This might help Cold Harbour:

[morton2011] 22/2/2019 06:49

@vacendak (: Not considered the Whale for Beluga!

[vacendak] 19/2/2019 20:10

Interim report at end of December 2018:


And for those of us who hold the ZDPs, the interim report for UIL Finance:

[vacendak] 12/2/2019 17:24

@pherrom
Sorry, a bit busier at work these days than I used to and unless mistaken Morton has sold but is still watching.

The key has always been to read the various ARs and for UIL Ltd, the last pages with grey background and in a smaller font. This is where you can see who owns what and roughly how much.

To be fair to ICM, they do not hide anything, their websites also offer a newsletter subscription and they email you the news about the major UIL/Zeta/Somers holdings and the funds they manage directly. The UIL/Zeta/UEM and Somers websites share the same template and host a lot of documents.

So whatever they hide, they hide it in plain sight. It is down to us as shareholders to read and... smile at the boards compositions (the managers of some companies are on the board of others) and the cross-investing that takes place.

[Somers]
They have never really mentioned it, but since UEM decided to relocate to the UK last year, the BCB divestment could be a hint that Somers is cutting its ties to Bermuda and would list on the LSE in the near future and, again big maybe, relocate to the UK too.
Somers has mostly liquid assets but seems illiquid, as in not traded a lot on the Bermuda stock exchange.

That's only my two cents though and I have nothing to really back it up.

[pherrom] 12/2/2019 15:42

Thanks vacendak; having been holding since 2014 I miss Morton and your commentary - about the only way I was able to keep tabs on the complications of this company.

[vacendak] 11/2/2019 19:37

And another incestuous transaction.


Unless mistaken, Permanent Capital is a major Somers shareholder, and... (insert another one or two layers of cross-holdings) we end up with people controlling UIL Ltd.

Well, things seem to be improving for the NAV of UIL Ltd, so I should not be too sarcastic or suspicious.

[russman] 05/2/2019 17:12

Still a big discount.

[russman] 20/1/2019 14:11

The discount is high by historical benchmark.
Forget the ZDP program.
Take out a mega fixed bank loan.
Buy the ords back.

[morton2011] 30/11/2018 14:23

Interesting that the gearing went up despite redeeming the ZDP in Oct factsheet, reflects the fall in the NAV but shows the risks as they swapped most of the ZDP dent for bank 'and other' debt.
Zeta is struggling along with the general commodities markets and next NAV update may reflect that. Resolute listing in London as per the FT this week should be good in the medium term.
Coldharbour is a real punt as far as I can see. Website would suggest its long established with lots of products but accounts at companies house show < £ 50,000 of sales in yr to 2017 while UIL invest £ millions. To quote article on their news site from the trade body of 2 months ago " “firm orders are still very hard to come by”, Good environmental idea so hoping it works out.

[vacendak] 25/11/2018 20:43

The factsheet for October is out.


I downloaded it earlier this week but only got to read it over the weekend.

Pretty bad return to the Earth's atmosphere for AfterPay Touch with its 30% drop.
According to the factsheet the Australian Senate is looking into the "buy now pay later" business and this seems to have spooked the markets with regards to the company. AfterPay is officially welcoming the inquiry.

As mentioned earlier Vix Verify is being bought so it has now disappeared from the list of holdings.
Coldharbour Technology enters the top ten.

The name has rung a bell. Indeed I had spotted UIL Ltd taking a position in this one back in post 841.
It was buried in the last pages of the report. We got in via warrant as well, an Utilico/UIL Ltd classic move.

"Replacing Vix Verify in the top ten is Coldharbour Technology Ltd, a UK-based marine technology company which has developed a unique ballast water treatment system using inert gas."

I am kind of wary of the new technology thing. We already hold CCE, good on paper, revolutionary energy generation that works (tidal wave) but it has been languishing for a while now. Coldharbour sounds a bit better if the US Coast Guard accreditation works out.

Well, for all the moaning about the ICM fees, they can at least certainly not be accused of running a closet tracker. They do put their money in companies that are out of the ordinary.

[vacendak] 01/11/2018 07:22

@topvest
We shall take this as the unofficial RNS of the day then. :)

I rolled all of mine over into ZDP 2024, but will cash in my 2022s as they are the last paper shares I hold and for some reasons Equiniti could not dematerialise them.