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SHIP Tufton Oceanic Assets Limited

1.33
0.015 (1.14%)
22 Jul 2024 - Closed
Delayed by 15 minutes
Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Tufton Oceanic Assets Limited LSE:SHIP London Ordinary Share GG00BDFC1649 ORD NPV
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  0.015 1.14% 1.33 1.31 1.34 1.365 1.315 1.32 94,874 16:35:00
Industry Sector Turnover Profit EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap
Finance Services -33.95M -2.47M -0.0085 -121.18 383.5M
Tufton Oceanic Assets Limited is listed in the Finance Services sector of the London Stock Exchange with ticker SHIP. The last closing price for Tufton Oceanic Assets was US$1.32. Over the last year, Tufton Oceanic Assets shares have traded in a share price range of US$ 0.96 to US$ 1.365.

Tufton Oceanic Assets currently has 291,632,541 shares in issue. The market capitalisation of Tufton Oceanic Assets is US$383.50 million. Tufton Oceanic Assets has a price to earnings ratio (PE ratio) of -121.18.

Tufton Oceanic Assets Share Discussion Threads

Showing 476 to 493 of 725 messages
Chat Pages: 29  28  27  26  25  24  23  22  21  20  19  18  Older
DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
12/11/2004
07:08
PARIS (AFX) - The European Aeronautic, Defence and Space Co NV (EADS) will
soon launch a bid to acquire Thales SA in a deal being orchestrated by the
French government, which owns just over 15 pct of EADS and a 31 pct stake in
Thales, according to a report in French daily Les Echos.
The new entity will have annual sales of about 40 bln eur and be present in
all sectors of the aviation industry, the newspaper said.
It said that as part of the deal, Alcatel and Dassault Aviation will sell
their minority stakes in Thales. Alcatel holds 9.5 pct of Thales and Dassault
Aviation owns 5.7 pct.
Thales meanwhile will sell its Communication business to Alcatel while
Dassault will acquire Thales' Airborne Systems division.
Financial terms of the takeover offer were not disclosed.
paris@afxnews.com
js/ma

ariane
11/11/2004
14:17
France May Raise EU3.5 Billion in Nuclear Power IPO, People Say
Nov. 10 (Bloomberg) -- France plans to sell more than a third of Areva SA, the world's biggest maker of nuclear reactors, raising about 3.5 billion euros ($4.5 billion) in an initial public offering, according to people familiar with the matter.

Finance Minister Nicolas Sarkozy may sell as much as 35 percent of Paris-based Areva, said the people, who declined to be identified. Non-voting investment certificates that are already publicly traded value Areva at 10.2 billion euros. Each certificate would be exchanged for one share, one of the people said. The government may announce the plan as early as today.

Sarkozy, who will leave the government at the end of the month, has raised more than $8 billion this year selling shares in state-controlled companies including Snecma SA, the world's third- largest maker of commercial aircraft engines, to help improve state finances. The Areva sale, slated for as early as March, would tap rising demand for nuclear power amid record oil prices.

``There is strong demand for nuclear power now because of oil costs and because of rising energy demand,'' said Xavier Debeugny, who manages $130 million for private clients at Oddo & Cie. in Paris. ``France can meet that demand with Areva because it has been serious about security and has invested in nuclear power for 30 years, since the last time oil prices soared.''

The government hired Toulouse & Associes to help advise it on options for Areva, one of the people said. The advisory boutique was founded by Jean-Baptiste Toulouse, a former banker at Lehman Brothers Holdings, Inc. in New York, Rothschild & Cie. in Paris and UBS Warburg in Paris. In September, it hired Jean Peyrelevade, the former chairman of Credit Lyonnais SA as a senior partner.

Charles Hufnagel, an Areva spokesman, declined to comment, as did a spokesman for the French finance ministry. Toulouse, based in Paris, didn't return calls by Bloomberg News for comment.

Framatome, Cogema

Named after a Cistercian abbey and created in September 2001, Areva is France's holding company for the nuclear industry. The company's Framatome division, a venture with Siemens AG, is the world's biggest maker of nuclear reactor and its Cogema unit is among the biggest producers of nuclear fuel.

Areva said Nov. 4 that third-quarter sales surged 38 percent to 2.39 billion euros, partly boosted by the acquisition of Alstom SA's power-networks business. It didn't release quarterly earnings. In the first half, net income quadrupled to 243 million euros and sales rose 29 percent to 5.34 billion euros.

Sarkozy, who will leave his government to run France's governing party, has pledged to lower government debt that has reached a record 63.7 percent of gross domestic product after almost 30 years of accumulated deficits. Revenue of share sales can't be used to reduce deficits under European Union rules. They can be used to reduce debt and to pay for other projects.

Oil Surge

Nuclear power demand is rising amid soaring oil prices. Crude oil prices last month surged to $55.67 a barrel in New York, the highest in more than two decades of futures trading, as concern mounted that supplies may be disrupted as energy demand surged. Increasing energy costs have hurt global economic growth.

Futures for crude oil on the New York Mercantile Exchange have fallen 15 percent from an Oct. 25 record of $55.67 a barrel, and were trading at $47.05 at 9:06 a.m. London time.

The governments of China and India both said in September their growing energy needs will in part be met with nuclear power.

China is preparing to award an $8 billion contract to build four new reactors, the first of 27 that will be needed over the next 15 years to meet the country's stated target of raising nuclear energy output to 36 gigawatts from 9 gigawatts today.

India plans to triple its nuclear power capacity by 2012 to 10 gigawatts, and is aiming for output of 20 gigawatts by 2020 from 3 today, which means 17 new reactors, Power Minister P.M. Sayeed said at the world Energy Congress in Sydney in September.

European Revival

Finland ordered a $3.7 billion, 1,600 megawatt reactor from a joint venture between Areva and Munich-based Siemens AG in December, the first such order in Western Europe since the Chernobyl disaster. The plant will come on line in 2009.

In the U.S., President George W. Bush's 2001 energy plan calls for increased use of nuclear power. The Department of Energy will share the expected $500 million cost of gaining approval for new reactors, the Wall Street Journal said yesterday.

Areva Chief Executive Officer Anne Lauvergeon, 45, said at a Paris press conference in March that the group was ready for a share sale if and when the government decided to go ahead.

Currently, less than 5 percent of Areva trades on the Paris bourse as non-voting investment certificates. Those certificates fell as much as 3.7 euros, or 1.3 percent, to 285.1 euros and traded at 287 euros at 12:43 p.m. in Paris.

Areva signed an agreement a year ago with Urenco Ltd., a uranium-processing company established by the U.K., Germany and the Netherlands in 1971, to buy half of the latter company's Enrichment Technology Co. unit for 3 billion euros. This will allow Areva to design and build centrifuge equipment to produce enriched uranium and will replace the gas diffusion plant it uses.

The Wall Street Journal and the French newspapers Les Echos and La Tribune reported the possible sale earlier today. They cited people familiar the situation they didn't identify.

waldron
11/11/2004
09:49
Sarkozy defends French backing for Alstom

Mark Milner
Wednesday November 10, 2004
The Guardian

CBI director general Digby Jones yesterday clashed with French finance minister Nicolas Sarkozy over the state-backed rescue of one of France's biggest industrial companies.
Mr Jones challenged Mr Sarkozy to justify his espousal of economic reform alongside the use of taxpayers' money to bail out engineering group Alstom, in a move which Mr Jones said meant the French group's rivals were "competing on a different playing field".

In a robust response, Mr Sarkozy said he was not ashamed of what he had done to rescue Alstom last year. "I believe that in a major country you can't have only theme parks and banks. The question of an industrial policy for Europe is a fundamental issue. If the state had not been prepared to become involved, Airbus would not now exist, [space rocket maker] Ariane would not now exist. All I did was provide Alstom with the means to recover. We are talking about 75,000 workers.

"The state has a role to provide for the future. I am a liberal but being a liberal does not mean that the finance ministry should just look on."

Later, Mr Jones said he admired Mr Sarkozy's frankness but was disappointed by what he had to say. He said the backing for Alstom had been against EU rules and should have been thrown out by the Eu ropean commission. Mr Sarkozy, he said, should accept that "when you join a club you can't pick and choose the rules".

In his main speech to the CBI conference, Mr Sarkozy, who is due to step down as finance minister later this month to take on the leadership of France's ruling centre-right party, UMP, urged Britain to move closer to Europe.

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"Europe needs Britain. You are friends with America... but you are closer to Europe. That's the reality. It's very rare for countries to change their address."

He said if the British wanted a Europe which resembled Britain more closely "you will have to take your place at the European table. You have to change things from the inside not the outside."

Mr Sarkozy, who addressed the conference in French, noted that English was spoken throughout the world and that the British economy was one of the strongest in Europe.

"Looking at Britain from the outside you are stronger than you yourselves believe."

grupo guitarlumber
10/11/2004
11:42
Report attacks defence spending

The Type 45 Destroyer is among the major defence projects
The Ministry of Defence has been criticised over the soaring spending costs and growing delays of its top equipment projects.
A National Audit Office report on the 20 biggest projects says costs have risen by £1.7bn in the past year.

It says there is "little evidence" the MoD's performance had improved, despite the introduction of a "smart acquisition" policy six years ago.

A senior defence official told the BBC lessons were being learned.

The NAO's annual report showed the total cost of the 20 projects covered was expected to reach £50bn - 14% higher than originally planned.

The total delays amounted to 62 months, with average individual delays rising by three months.


'Legacy projects'

Sir John Bourn, head of the NAO, said the problems showed the principles of the scheme known as smart acquisition had not been consistently applied.

"Many problems can be traced to the fact that the MoD has not spent enough time and resources in the assessment phase," the report says.

The NAO found that projects launched since the start of the scheme were showing the same worrying tendencies as the older "legacy projects", such as the Eurofighter.

A senior defence official, speaking to the BBC's defence correspondent Paul Adams, said that although the figures were still not good enough, the report reflected unrealistic expectations early on in the project cycle.

This year's overspend was significantly less than last year's £3.1bn total, and the Defence Procurement Agency - which is responsible for buying defence equipment - was improving.

'Few surprises'

Lord Bach, Minister for Defence Procurement, said he was "obviously still disappointed with the cost and time increases shown", but insisted that the Defence Procurement Agency had "undertaken a huge amount of work to expose any underlying problems on projects".

The latest findings follow a string of critical reports issued within the last 12 months, and, according to our correspondent, contain few new surprises.

Turning around the Defence Procurement Agency "was a little like trying to turn around a super tanker - it takes a very long time indeed", he said.

Our correspondent said it was the same projects, including the Joint Strike Fighter, the Nimrod and A400M aircraft and the Type 45 Destroyer, which were resonsible for the bulk of the cost over-runs and delay.

But he added some projects, such as the C-17 heavy lift aircraft and Successor Identification Friend or Foe (SIFF), were showing good performances.

grupo guitarlumber
10/11/2004
08:47
PARIS (AFX) - Alcatel is preparing to sell off its 9.5 pct stake in Thales
SA, financial daily La Tribune reported.
The paper cited a Thales source as saying: "They will sell, we are waiting
to find out when."
It said that Alcatel's plans put at risk both the shareholders pact between
the government, Alcatel and Dassault Systemes, as well as industrial
partnerships between Thales and the two other companies.
The Thales source was quoted as saying the state is in "no rush" to break up
the pact, "but (Alcatel CEO) Serge Tchuruk is a problem."
The source told the paper Thales thinks an announcement might come before
the departure of Nicolas Sarkozy from the finance ministry later this month.
Analysts have already raised the possibility of Alcatel selling its stake,
particularly if the share moves above 30 eur. Yesterday, Thales shares closed at
31.03.
paris@afxnews.com
jad/hjp

grupo guitarlumber
09/11/2004
20:02
LONDON, November 9 (newratings.com) – Analyst Michael Hagmann of UBS upgrades Alstom (AOM.FSE) from "reduce" to "neutral." The target price is set to €0.60.
grupo guitarlumber
05/11/2004
07:31
PARIS (AFX) - Thales SA said it has won a contract from the UK Ministry of
Defence for the maritime unmanned air vehicle (UAV) portion of the ministry's
joint UAV experimentation programme.
Thales will lead the consortium that won the contract, which also includes
Boeing and QinetiQ.
The consortium will supply the ScanEagle drone, which has extended duration
capabilities and the ability to be launched and recovered on ships.
Financial details were not disclosed.
paris@afxnews.com
js/ab

waldron
27/10/2004
14:44
Bombardier Says It May Sell More High-Speed Trains in China
Oct. 27 (Bloomberg) -- Bombardier Inc., the world's largest manufacturer of trains and third-largest maker of passenger airplanes, said it may win more orders for high-speed passenger trains than initially anticipated in China.

The rail minister ``tells us he may order twice as many trains in the future from various manufacturers,'' raising the number of high-speed trains to 400 from 200, Chief Executive Paul Tellier said at a briefing in Beijing, a stop on his tour of China to review the company's strategy for the market.

Bombardier, a Montreal-based company with global sales of $15.5 billion for the fiscal year ended Jan. 31, announced Oct. 15 that it won a $263 million contract to sell 20 eight-car high-speed trains to China. In addition to building 50 regional airports, China plans to link all of its major cities with high- speed trains, including magnetic levitation systems, which Bombardier doesn't make.

``I'm convinced that China in two decades will be a center of the economic order,'' Tellier said. ``That is why any successful executive must consider China.''

Bombardier is looking at the possibility of sourcing airplane parts from China, Tellier said. ``We're in discussion with three possible manufacturers,'' he said, without identifying any of the companies.

Aircraft

Bombardier, which makes high-speed trains and propulsion technology through two ventures in China, is also looking at selling its C series 100-seat regional aircraft in the mainland, he said. Bombardier has invested $38 million and dedicated a team of 200 engineers to come up with a design for the C series and will make a decision in early 2005 whether to manufacture the aircraft.

``China is one of the key markets for us,'' said Tellier, who refused to give an estimate on how many C series aircrafts he aims to sell in China. ``But globally, we hope to sell thousands of these.''

The company has sold 64 small- and medium-size aircraft seating 90 passengers or fewer in China, Tellier said.

Its rival, Empresa Brasileira de Aeronautica, the world's fourth-largest aircraft maker, will boost sales from its factory in China as the government cuts the cost of internal flights, Chief Executive Mauricio Botelho said in July.

Embraer, which expects the plant's deliveries this year to be half of the dozen 50-seat planes it targets, estimates Chinese airlines will buy 250 jets in the next decade to serve routes within the country, Botelho said in an interview on July 30 at the company's offices in Sao Paulo.

waldron
27/10/2004
10:26
LONDON (AFX) - Hitachi Ltd's rail division has been named preferred
manufacturer to build new high speed trains to operate on the Kent franchise.
The new trains will be technologically advanced to operate on both domestic
railway tracks and the new high speed channel tunnel rail link track where they
will reach speeds of 140 mph, according to transport secretary Alistair Darling.
The service will provide high speed train services from Kent to St Pancras.
The order is expected to be for about thirty (6-carriage) trains introduced
in 2009.
bam

waldron
25/10/2004
17:18
PARIS (AFX) - French defence minister Michele Alliot-Marie confirmed the
government will submit a bill to modify the corporate statutes of state-owned
shipyards DCN, paving the way for its merger with the shipbuilding business of
Thales SA.
The official merger announcement could be made as soon as Nov 2, after both
companies call extraordinary works council meetings to discuss the project, a
report earlier in French daily La Tribune said.
Alliot-Marie also said the French government agreed with Italian Defence
Minister Antonio Martino on the terms of a combined French/Italian order for 27
multimission frigates.
The agreement is based on a unit cost of 280 mln eur excluding tax for the
17 French frigates and 350 mln for each of the 10 Italian frigates, sources at
the French defence ministry said, after the deal was signed at the EuroNaval
technology show in Paris.
paris@afxnews.com
ea/sr/jc

maywillow
25/10/2004
06:58
PARIS (AFX) - Defence Minister Michele Alliot-Marie will announce today that
the government has approved a modification of the corporate statutes of
state-owned shipyards DCN, paving the way for its merger with the shipbuilding
business of Thales SA, French daily La Tribune said.
The official merger announcement could be made from Nov 2, after both
companies call extraordinary works council meetings to discuss the project, the
report said.
paris@afxnews.com
js/lam

grupo
18/10/2004
08:04
COMPANY NEWS
-EADS wants to enter ThyssenKrupp-led marine consortium; eyeing One Equity
Partners' 25 pct stake
-EADS expects to hike 2004 EBIT guidance at Q3 results on Nov 4

maywillow
15/10/2004
07:10
PARIS (AFX) - Thales SA will confirm its tie-up with the state-owned DCN
shipyards in the coming weeks, La Tribune reported.
Without naming its source, the paper said the deal could be unveiled at the
Euronaval naval equipment exhibition which opens October 25.
Thales chief executive Denis Ranque last month said relations between the
two groups were "evolving favourably," but that the financial details were not
yet decided.
La Tribune cited DCN as saying yesterday that talks were ongoing.
It said initially the deal would lead to the merger of DCN's shipbuilding
activities with Thales unit Thales Naval France before a possible tie-up with
ThyssenKrupp AG and German state shipyards Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW) to
create the 'naval EADS' favoured by the French government.
paris@afxnews.com

waldron
10/10/2004
14:03
PARIS (AFX) - Alstom SA said it has formed a cooperation agreement with
China's Dong Fang to propose a turbine generator package for Phase II of the
Ling Ao nuclear power plant, operated by the China Nuclear Power Engineering
Company.
The two groups have already cooperated on Phase I of the Ling Ao plant.
Alstom also said it will invest in a new welded rotor facility in China that
will equip nuclear or fossil-fuel steam turbines.
Financial details of the two projects were not disclosed.
The announcements came as Alstom announced contract wins for the supply of
regional trains and locomotives in China, as well as orders for providing power
equipment for three pumped-storage power stations in the country, for a total
value of about 1.3 bln eur.
Alstom officials are part of the entourage of French business executives
travelling with President Jacques Chirac during his official visits to China and
other Asian countries.
paris@afxnews.com
js/ak

waldron
09/10/2004
19:11
Alstom Wins EU1.36 Bln of Contracts During Chirac Trip to China
Oct. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Alstom SA, the French engineering company rescued from near bankruptcy, said it won contracts worth 1.36 billion euros ($1.69 billion) to provide China with trains as well as hydroelectric and nuclear power equipment.

Alstom will build 60 regional trains worth 620 million euros in partnership with Changchun Railway Company, the French company said in a faxed statement. Alstom will receive an additional 380 million euros by supplying 180 locomotives to be built in China with Datong Electric Locomotive Company.

The Paris-based company, the world's second-biggest train- maker, will also manufacture turbines and provide technology worth 357 million euros to three hydroelectric power stations throughout the country, Alstom said in a separate statement.

``These announcements are very encouraging for Alstom,'' Chairman Patrick Kron said in the statement. The company, which was rescued in a government-led bailout from near bankruptcy, is 21.4 percent-owned by the state.

Kron is accompanying French President Jacques Chirac on his five-day trip to China together with executives from more than 50 French companies.

France, Europe's third-largest economy, is losing market share to its European partners in China. Its share of European exports to China dropped to about 14 percent last year from 20 percent in 1999. Germany's share gained nine percentage points to 53 percent in the same period.

Alstom said earlier this morning it signed an agreement with Dong Fang of China to supply a turbine generator for a nuclear reactor, without providing any financial details.

ariane
29/9/2004
12:34
(Updating with comment on acquisitions, T&D business, outlook)
PARIS (AFX) - Areva CEO Anne Lauvergeon confirmed the French nuclear
engineering group is in talks with Alstom SA over the final price it will pay
for the transmission and distribution business and has hired KPMG as an adviser.
"We are having discussions with Alstom to determine the final amount of
money ... This is not a conflict by any stretch of the imagination, we are in a
conventional framework agreement," finance director Gerald Arbola said in a
conference call following first-half results last night.
Reports in the press earlier said Areva is contesting the full price it will
pay to acquire the T&D unit, and is withholding 105 mln eur of the total 920 mln
payable, following lower than expected results at the division since the sale
was agreed in January.
Areva plans to focus on organic growth in its T&D business but if "targeted
acquisitions can help to speed up the synergy process we would not be opposed,"
Lauvergeon said.
She said Areva has not allocated provisions for acquisitions but may be
interested in buying BNFL's Westinghouse Electric Company unit if it is for
sale.
Areva expects orders for three nuclear generating units from the Chinese
government "fairly soon", out of a total 8 bln usd order for six units.
"The latest news is that the Chinese government approved the building of at
least six new nuclear units ... Things are moving swiftly," she said.
"I don't know the details of the amount," she said, adding: "This is one of
the details we are discussing."
The China News Service reported today that China's cabinet has approved the
8 bln usd Yangjiang nuclear power project in Guangdong province, involving six
nuclear generating units with a combined installed capacity of 6 mln kW to 9 mln
kW.
Areva is on track to meet its full year earnings targets -- including an
increase in sales on a like-for-like basis, continued growth in operating income
and a recovery in the connectors business -- but Lauvergeon said operating
income for T&D activities is likely to decrease before restructuring.
The business has a new management team and a three-year plan to make it an
"important contributor to the business of the Areva group," she said.
Lauvergeon said orders placed with the T&D division in July and August are
comparable to previous years.
Orders fell to 786 mln eur in the second quarter from 900 mln in the first
quarter, but improved from the 651 mln posted in the fourth quarter of 2003.
Discussions are under way between Areva/Cogema and Electricite de France on
a commercial agreement regarding post-2008 services and an agreement is expected
by year-end, Arbola said.
Asked about a potential privatisation of the state-owned nuclear power
company, he said it is "up to shareholders to decide" when they are ready, "and
indeed we are."
Areva is 93 pct state-owned, with a few percent of its capital listed on
Euronext Paris via investment certificates.
paris@afxnews.com
sr/an/

grupo guitarlumber
29/8/2004
16:15
BEIJING (AFX) - France's Alstom, Japan's Kawasaki Heavy Industries and
Canada's Bombardier Inc have won contracts for the technological upgrade of
China's inter-city trains, Chinese state media said.
The contracts were awarded in a recent bidding for high-speed train
technology in China, with the three companies participating via consortia with
local enterprises, the Xinhua news agency said on its website.
The entire project to modernize China's inter-city trains was worth 885
mln usd, according to earlier reports.
The foreign technology would help China overcome some of its serious
transportation bottlenecks by allowing trains to travel at speeds of 200
kilometers per hour, Xinhua said.
The agency did not go into details about the extent of the contracts
awarded or their value.
Chinese officials and foreign businesses were unavailable for comment
Sunday.
Alstom won its part of the contract via a consortium with Chinese rolling
stock maker Changchun Railway Vehicles, according to Xinhua.
Kawasaki Heavy Industries participated in the bidding via a consortium with
China's Nanche Sifang Locomotive, the agency said.
According to earlier reports, the Japanese consortium also included
Hitachi Ltd, and Mitsubishi Electric as well as three trading companies, Itochu,
Marubeni and Mitsubishi.
Bombardier's successful bid was launched through its China-based venture
Bombardier Sifang Power, Xinhua reported.
ph/br/tr

waldron
26/8/2004
12:26
FRANKFURT (AFX) - Siemens AG plans to spin off its contact line construction
unit in order to cut costs at its troubled transportation systems division, the
IG Metall Union said citing industry sources.
The unit makes the devices mounted on to tram and rail cars in order to
transmit electricity to them.
A Siemens spokesman declined to comment on the matter.
The sources said Siemens wants to either find a partner, sell the unit
outright or sell it to its own management because it is too expensive to
operate. It employs about 400 workers in Essen, Halle, Hannover, Karlsruhe and
Leipzig, an IG Metall spokesman said.
Siemens has put increasing pressure on its domestic workforce this year to
reduce costs or see their jobs sent abroad. In July it reached agreement with
the staff at two mobile phone assembly plants under which they could keep their
jobs for at least two years after agreeing to work more hours without any
monetary compensation.
The electronics and engineering giant is currently involved in negotiations
with workers in order to reduce expenditure at additional domestic facilities.
Siemens transportation systems unit is under particular pressure after two
successive loss-making quarters, largely a result of provisions booked to repair
its faulty Combino tramcars.
In the fiscal third quarter through end-June, the transportation systems
unit posted an operating loss of 48 mln eur. In the fiscal second quarter its
operating loss was 289 mln eur.
IG Metall said that Siemens automation and drives unit also completed
negotiations with its works council to spin off a facility in Bremen from Oct 1.
alfred.kueppers@afxnews.com
amk/wf

maywillow
Chat Pages: 29  28  27  26  25  24  23  22  21  20  19  18  Older