Tetragon Financial Share Discussion Threads

[hugepants] 21/12/2021 12:28

They'll have a good laugh at 1)
Probably 2) and 3) as well although they may not laugh as hard.

[ceaserxzy] 21/12/2021 11:50

An email with a list of questions has been sent to Yuko (who is out of office until the 29th, so also frowarded to their IR.) and IR. Anyone interested in doing the same, please find their emails are pasted here: Yuko Thomas and [e-mail]

My questions mainly focused on the following points:

1. The undemocratic share structure which denies shareholders any saying when the company is NOT run in their interest or is destroying their interest. Needs change. This is the most critical issue and the root cause why this company is performing badly.

2. Why would they incur cost, fees,fat salaries etc for fund managers to invest capital in other ventures ,and often lose money for their share holders,while they can just invest in their own shares, at a sure and instant 200% profit without needing any fund managers at all, paying $8.6 in the market to buy about $27's worth of NAV.

3. How can they justify the high fees and cost while consistently underperforming over the last 5 years,over which the share price has dropped from about over $12 to under $9.

[gfrae] 20/12/2021 10:16

Of course, that is why shareholders do not have a vote ! management have no incentive whatsoever to listen to non voteholding shareholders. They have control without having to pay for it.

[alpal2] 20/12/2021 09:18

cease: I wish you success at trying to get the directors to focus on anything except their fees. Their standard reply is that they are not responsible for the share price. Technically, this may be true, but it's an abrogation of their wider responsibility to look after the interests of shareholders. Their attitude would be very different if shareholders had a vote.

[ceaserxzy] 19/12/2021 16:41

Annual meeting on the last day of the year! Anyone intending to attend the AGM and submit questions?

Last time I submitted a list of questions but they have not really been properly answered. I will try to submit a list of questions again anyway and complain that last time they have not presented and answered my questions faithfully.

[riskvsreward] 16/12/2021 18:32

How come this company never issues any rns about fee based shares allocated to fund managers? All other companies make such disclosures. This company seems to operate in a different world.

[ceaserxzy] 16/12/2021 18:14

The starting lines of the Edison report, even bought buy Tetragon (of course using the money of us shareholders), say it all. Almost all the returns from the company assets are taken by the fund managers, while shareholders are left with a year-to-date share price drop of almost 10%. Outrageous act but shareholders cannot do anything about it. This is not right!

Edison issues review on Tetragon Financial Group (TFG)

Tetragon Financial Group (Tetragon) reported a 2.6% NAV total return (TR) year to date to end-October 2021 in US$ terms. All asset classes except for quoted assets showed positive gross returns, with TFG Asset Management (TFG AM, 37% of portfolio) and bank loans delivering 15.1% and 15.5% returns, respectively. However, this performance was largely offset by ongoing charges and fees (including incentive fees) and share dilution, mostly from share-based compensation.

[alpal2] 16/12/2021 09:01

Edison report: TFG has paid Edison to produce a very muted report. That it was paid for by TFG means that Edison could not highlight:
1] TFG fees are highest in the industry, performance worst?
2] Directors are only interested in their fees; the non-voting shareholders are not to be considered.
3] The discount to NAV is the clearest statement by the market that it does not believe the directors are capable of [or wish to] deliver anything of benefit to shareholders.
4] MY speculation: Directors will only deal with the value in the asset management companies when they have worked out how to keep the majority of that value for themselves.

[ceaserxzy] 20/11/2021 09:50

Tetragon Financial Group Limited Ord USD

Price Prem/ Disc NAV Yield 1 y (%) 3 y (%) 5 y (%) OCF
8.75 (USD) -67.3 26.75 4.57 -3.1 -20.1 -5.5 1.70

High fee, poor performance over 1, 3 to 5 years all losing money.

How can the managers not feel shameful and "rob" its shareholders by taking one of the highest fees while losing them money!

[f56] 12/11/2021 17:25

Ripple now 7th largest crypto with a market cap of $57bn.

[riskvsreward] 26/10/2021 17:10

Like many other investment trusts, eg, eat, vof, toro, Jcgi to mention just a few, they should pay a dividend as a fixed percentage of the nav. Say 3 to 4 % which is not excessive, especially as they claim their long term nav return is higher than 10%.

[riskvsreward] 26/10/2021 17:06

They have ten (golden) shares that have got 100% voting rights, more powerful than the government having one golden share for critical technology companies like rolls Royce. How that is allowed is bordering on criminal as it means they can do anything they want with other shareholders’ money without any effective check and balances.

[spectoacc] 21/10/2021 19:32

They'd save listing fees, the grief, and from periodically chucking cash at Edison reports. Milk the market, then swipe it.

(@Tula100 - they've got all the votes).

[horndean eagle] 21/10/2021 18:53

no incentive to take it private. they just take all the value out via fees. eventually they will own the lot by backdoor stealth scrip dividends. they have given up on doing anything to support the price. at least they went under pretence of handing cash back via 2 tenders last year. not bothered this year and don't expect them to either given they have burnt through cash and geared up.

[tula100] 21/10/2021 18:06

Does the BoD have the majority shareholding?

[makinbuks] 21/10/2021 17:08

Our friends the BoD must be considering that now

[spectoacc] 21/10/2021 11:35

Wonder if at some point it gets taken private - at a not particularly high price, and nowhere near NAV. Not sure what they're gaining from the listing.

[ceaserxzy] 15/10/2021 18:38

That is the hope. However looking back I wish I have cut my loss last year, with the capital then better invested elsewhere. Hope I won't regret the same thing one year later.

[tula100] 15/10/2021 13:19

Yes the directors have got the 'Corporate Governance' all sewn up to their own individual advantage. But having made the mistake of buying TFG, there is no point in crystallising the loss because the current value is yielding over 4% which is as good as I can get elsewhere.

[ceaserxzy] 14/10/2021 20:38

That 4% can be 8% if the price coming down another 50%, or they can do better by cutting the dividend by 50% to keep it what was the management described as an attractive 4%. This is a dog no matter how you look at it. It is very unfortunate to be stuck with it over the last two years, myself included, seeing almost all other trusts have gone up, in many cases by quite a lot.

[spectoacc] 14/10/2021 18:54

I think cutting that divi has a lot to do with the discount having gone wider.

But agree re cheapness, & still got mine. "One day..".

[hugepants] 14/10/2021 16:18

I don't disagree with that. Even though it's almost obligatory when posting here to describe the shares as like something that lurks at the bottom of your toilet they are actually a screaming buy on fundamentals. You even get a decent 4% yield (paid quarterly) while you wait.

[makinbuks] 14/10/2021 16:10

Thanks Donald, there's a lot in what you say and certainly I haven't seen much evidence of Tetragon realising asset prices at their internally valued levels. There's been talk of floating one or other of the managers but its never happened. However, I think my point remains valid: that was true also 12 months ago, it was true pre pandemic. I think its entirely feasible that we return to the 40% discount pre pandemic. I'm not arguing that a large discount is not justified simply that it is perverse that it widens further

As another point, I actually think they will do quite well when there's a lot of volatility around so I wouldn't think now was a good point to sell. Indeed if the discount tempts you I would say this is a great time to get involved

[donald pond] 14/10/2021 12:32

In the end, if you hold very illiquid assets in a closed ended vehicle, and the shares are trading at what appears to be a 60-70% discount to NAV, the obvious thing for any board of directors, acting in accordance with their statutory duties, to do would be to sell off the underlying assets and return cash to the shareholders.
That this state of affairs has persisted for so long suggests one or both of the assets not being worth what the company says and the board not complying with their statutory duties.
So it begs the question, at what point do you invest in a company holding assets, the value of which you don't know and having a board you don't trust? I'm sure there is value here, but perhaps only for the vampires taking fees. I've never held btw.