Tclarke Share Discussion Threads

[this_is_me] 17/11/2016 09:35

If the £2.8 million was no longer a reasonable estimate they would have said so.

[shanklin] 17/11/2016 07:22

You'd think CTO would have provided an update on the potential maximum amount associated with the fraud?? Perhaps they don't yet know what that is?

[sspurt] 15/11/2016 12:48

Trading statement on Thurs. V interested to hear any comments on margin trends, particularly as such comment was so noticeably muted in the August int report.

[coolen] 04/11/2016 00:18

Possible scenario (?):
Fake invoice written by Matey 1 on legitimate Creditor Company notepaper.
Matey 2 produces it to the Finance Director at Debtor Company T.Clarke who agrees it.
Matey 2 re-directs the payment to bank account shared by the two mateys ?

Creditor Company doesn't miss the dosh, because it did not expect to receive anything;
Debtor Company doesn't miss the dosh because it settled an apparently legitimate invoice ?

[cc2014] 03/11/2016 22:13

I suspect that this issue is that this is invoice fraud as that's the only way the costs can be in the books.

So, company receives invoice from legitimate company with legitimate bank account (owned by the fraudster), but no work is done for the invoice provided.

But, it's hard to understand how such large amounts could have been taken out. The turnover of DG Robson was £8m 6 years ago. I don't know how much it would be now but taking out £500k a year from a company with that small a turnover should be noticed by the FD or one of his staff.

I think the FD may be under pressure here.

[coolen] 03/11/2016 21:45

During those 7 years did the auditors rubber-stamp the accounting records 7 times, with not a single question ?

[bazzer1000] 01/11/2016 19:41

Sorry ask not bid!!!

[bazzer1000] 01/11/2016 19:40

CC2014They weren't all sells. Many were buys. Although top of the bid was 61p this afternoon you could buy for 59.3pRegardsBaz

[dozey3] 01/11/2016 17:44

"...someone is soaking up all the stock presumably because full year guidance has been re-iterated."
More likely some insider knows that the cash leaked away before it could reach the bottom line, hitting margins as well as profits. The corollary being that in future this extra "cost" will not exist with benefits all round. This is especially the case if directors do the decent thing and take a substantial hit to their overgenerous remuneration. Some hopes. Of course any optimism is tempered by the thought that gross incompetence can easily be repeated, as I see with some other of my investments :-(

[cc2014] 01/11/2016 12:52

Price now recovered. I find it interesting that we have a long stream of reported sells yet the price continues to rise. It would seem that someone is soaking up all the stock presumably because full year guidance has been re-iterated

[fillipe] 01/11/2016 09:15

Ask is back up to 60p and CTO appears to be being well taken.

Totals for the L2 bid/ask are 69k v 41k, so looking good there.

[meijiman] 01/11/2016 08:34

There may be other cans of worms lurking here if financial controls are lacking.......

[fillipe] 01/11/2016 08:19

Level 2 bid/ask totals - strong at 67k v 41k.

Best bid/ask even stronger at 2:1

f

[fillipe] 01/11/2016 08:09

I'm now back in. A disproportionate mark down, relative to the statement yesterday.

f

[gargoyle2] 01/11/2016 06:01

I wonder if Danny Robson's sudden resignation in March has anything to do with this.

On track to meet market expectations -- those are for around 8p EPS, which arguably makes the shares good value imo.

[coolen] 31/10/2016 22:22

Why does this plc not have auditors ?

[cc2014] 31/10/2016 22:16

So, we have the quite unusual situation that discovery of a fraud will have no detriment on the bottom line or more likely improve it.

I checked on bond yields. They have moved dramatically in our favor with regard to the pension fund deficit in the last month. I do agree though that the pension fund deficit is holding the share price back and will continue to do so for a while.

[gdjs100] 31/10/2016 21:36

I had assumed the more general recent weakness post-Brexit was down to the pension deficit, given the reduction in bond yields since the last valuation. I'm mindful of what happened to Carclo recently where they were unable to pay their dividend, despite having the funds to do so, due to a ballooning deficit and insufficient distributable reserves.Granted another £250k-£500k pa would be very useful on the bottom line, even if they don't recover any of the stolen funds.Awaiting the next TS with interest.

[cc2014] 31/10/2016 21:24

The RNS is fairly clear on the point you make gdjs100. It seems although someone has nicked £2.8m, the company has treated this as an expense, so the fraud has probably been done through payment of fraudulent invoices.

£2.8m though - that's not a small crime and one wonders where the money is now and whether it has all been spent or if any of it is recoverable.

One also wonders if the fraud was running at say £250k-500k a year now it ceases, whether the underlying position now improves by this amount.

I'm not sure what will happen with the share price tomorrow. No material impact on the trading update and expectations re-affirmed but institutions don't like this sort of thing.

It does explain the selling Friday though !

[janeann] 31/10/2016 21:05

sounds good to me if you are right gdjs

[gdjs100] 31/10/2016 20:53

I understood it that the money stolen is included in the historic numbers, and so if they can recover any of it, that should give an exceptional gain. Good that they have figured this out, but clearly bad that it happened in the first place.

[fillipe] 31/10/2016 20:50

Whoever must have been good at it!