Shaft Sink Share Discussion Threads

[muckshifter] 11/10/2012 13:13

Noirua,
Was the shaft bigger than 60m diameter then, as that's the biggest use of freezing I can remember?

You keep saying that shft are insured against, what exactly? Loosing money? Jobs more difficult than they thought? Unforseen ground conditions?

Ask them!
Regards.

[noirua] 11/10/2012 12:25

Hopefully SHFT are fully insured if worse come to the worse. If all works out in favour SHFT should be a bit better off.

I expect SHFT are insured for legal defence costs as well.

Reputation isn't exactly on the line here and Eurochem probably new the ground problems well and legally they thought they would go for a bigger pay day than let Shaft Sinkers solve the shaft problems.

The shaft is too big for freezing to have been a sensible option and grouting was the way to go.

[gleach23] 11/10/2012 08:01

Thanks John09

[john09] 11/10/2012 00:05

Sorry I meant yes I've got it! It was in my account a couple of days ago

[gleach23] 10/10/2012 22:33

no john09...it took 2 working days for the final divi in june but after 3 working days i haven't had the interim divi yet

thanks gary1966

[gary1966] 10/10/2012 22:09

Yes received mine late yesterday.

[john09] 10/10/2012 22:03

You got it

[gleach23] 10/10/2012 20:47

anyone had the dividend yet? I'm with selftrade and, 3 working days on, haven't had mine yet

I looked back in june and the payment date was 12th and I received the divi on the 14th...

[muckshifter] 10/10/2012 18:48

A couple of points.
The Russians might well be putting up a spurious counterclaim to avoid handing over £20m (I would guess), but they may not be. Don't forget that they have a huge investment, perhaps a billion or two, which is now running something like a year behind because of the shaft problem.

This was easily shft's biggest job and they said somewhere that they had better margins in Russia, but the terms of each job were negotiated, so we don't know what those terms include, ie. if they have a limit on liability, and if so what is it.

Also, I think I read somewhere that shft don't do freezing, ie, this is what we do, take it or leave it, on a job a year behind?

In terms of insurance, I'm sure that is a non starter. Have shft ever mentioned it in this context? The only organisation I consider might be vulnerable to a claim would be any design consultant if negligence could be proved. The other "insurance" shft probably had other then standard stuff which would not help, might be something like our export credit guarantee stuff from their home country - but again I can't see that being triggered by a contractual dispute.

The arbitration, which if nothing else causes great delay, is referred in Zurich and Paris for some strange reason. For shft holders sakes I hope the case for shft is so cut and dried that they can go straight to court for some sort of "summary judgement"
Regards.

[napoleon 14th] 10/10/2012 16:20

Agreed, wskill.

Past history with the likes of Abramasmuckovitch (of Chelski fame) amongst many others underlines the fact. Eurochem are using strong arm tactics.

What, I wonder, is where does the court battle takes place?
Is it:
1. In a jurisdiction where the law is paramount and final, or
2. In a jurisdiction where knowing the judge is paramount and final?

imo that's the main factor!

[wskill] 10/10/2012 14:40

Settle with a dogey Russian company the only reason they will take this to court is to avoid paying what is owed SHFT are well respected within their industry and will have explored every other avenue before pulling out if another approach was possibile it would have been tested

[buywell2] 10/10/2012 14:04

SHFT need to settle this claim ASAP

Their business will be adversly affected whilst it hangs over it

[muckshifter] 10/10/2012 08:36

Noirua,
Sorry but I don't have time to read your link at the moment, but are you sure that it isn't the standard insurance provided for the benefit of the client?

On just about every civils job I ever worked on there is an insurance requirement to insure the works against any form of disaster for the client, usually in the UK to £10m or so, but it wouldn't cover someone deciding that a method was uneconomic.
Regards.

[buywell2] 10/10/2012 07:58

Noirua

I think SHFT will find it hard/expensive to get insurance cover going forward


muckshifter

Going to be hard going for SHFT to dig themselves out of this mess

[muckshifter] 09/10/2012 11:25

I think you will find that you can't insure against unexpected, or worse than anticipated, ground conditions. Or for that matter, non payment of moneys due, when those sums are the subject of litigation or arbitration under the terms of the contract.

Just think about it. If you could insure against the cost of dealing with bad ground, all contractors would tender for every job on the basis of dead easy ground conditions - in order to win the job, and then claim all extra costs from insurance companies.

Cash was more like £7m, IIRC.
Regards.

[rabbitman2] 09/10/2012 10:36

Chart responsible for bringing this back down to 40!
Perhaps just a little bit of the recent newsflow?

Litigation and insurance claims aside, cash levels post H1 in July were at £16m were they not?

Market Cap today £19m and cash accruing especially from Vedanta?

This is risky but I potential recovery play for those fleet of foot.
Problems - SA riots, Platinum, Eurochem. Hmm, not making things easy though!

[noirua] 09/10/2012 10:17

I cant see that charts point to anything much at the moment. The market needs more solid legal views as to the likely court outcome or out of court settlement.

The market cap of SHFT is so low compared to the claim, David versus Goliath, it look as if Eurochem are trying to scare Shaft Sinkers into submission, however, it's all on any insurance cover held by SHFT and how careful they were in both drawing up the agreement and if they should have gone for freezing, said to have been suggested by Eurochem, and if grouting was both the correct move in the first place and if it was solely their decision.

[petersinthemarket] 09/10/2012 08:44

when does your chart say we might hit £1.00 again?
or anywhere north of where we stand!

[john09] 08/10/2012 20:29

No doubt you bought at 40p last time and sold at a quid? No?

[buywell2] 08/10/2012 19:48

Chartwise 40p call made on 9th Sept hit today


Worth learning about charts if you are serious about investing .... advfn's kit comes in very handy I find







buywell2 9 Sep'12 - 09:14 - 1306 of 1449 edit







40p retest chartwise could come if support breaks

[tpinvest] 08/10/2012 13:14

The level2 ruse continues Bid shown as 39.5 Offer 41.5
Current offer from Selftrade is actually 39.5 causing more buys to be shown as sells.

[lennonsalive] 08/10/2012 12:09

The problem is here, bad news after bad news and the only good news a contract win does have any details about money.

[tpinvest] 08/10/2012 11:01

I suppose many of us are following this one on level 2.
It would be better to largely ignore the trades this morning as the buys and sells could be correct.
With a spread of 39.5/40 I just bought another 5K at 39, this appeared as a sell of course adding to the confusion already caused by Friday's sell off.

[billy_liar] 08/10/2012 10:59

A 'guesser' with the benefit of hinsight.

:-)