Poole Investments Share Discussion Threads

[smallchange] 07/3/2005 18:38

Pilkington Tiles has been bought and is now run by Surface Coatings Ltd.

As far as the lease is concerned it was for 5 years with a 3 year clause, but with the overpayments and other funds lent to PIV the lease will be extended.

[pesto] 07/3/2005 16:09

Someone's just bailed out 100k ! I'm sticking with my modest holding for a bit longer.

[screwed] 07/3/2005 16:06

Still asking the question


WHO ARE THE TILE COMPANY????

Does anybody know who the directors and major shareholders are?

I understood that the lease was for a short term only. 3, possibly 5 years.

Is this correct?

If so how can there be any problems with gaining possession at the end of the term. The tenants will have no 1954 Act rights as possession will be required for redevelopment.

I also know the site and am quite happy to sit tight. I believe it to be a little belter, although there is still much to do. There is certainly a will at The Council to see this area comprehensively redeveloped.

At this price, its a good one for the pension fund and I will be buying a few more at this price if funds permit

[smallchange] 07/3/2005 08:48

hybrasil,

I am correct, the tile company is paying over the lease value so PIV can make its debt payments, they also supplied the cash for 2 directors to leave with a years pay and 5 weeks holiday pay which there was a huge argument over. They are moving debt and claims around but they are getting bigger. There is no way they can turn on the tile factory as they need that to make debt repayments. They have put way too many clauses in the lease and it will be turned against them as the new factory owners have a massice dislike for PIV.

[hybrasil] 07/3/2005 05:47

Smallchange
Thats much better- at least it has some reasoned argument.
I have not read the lease and I doubt you are correct and it will take me some time to revert on this point.
However if the tile company remains in existence this removes the contingent liability of the pension claim for the 7 employees therby increasing the value of the company (PIV)!
I will be back in a few weeks

[smallchange] 06/3/2005 22:32

hybrasil,

I have had a conversation today with one of the directors of the tile company, I have recieved information on the exact state of PIV´s finances and the financial situation they are in. The tile factory is staying on that site for at least the next decade and if you look at pay attention to clauses on the current lease and the other financial arrangments (which will not be disclosed to the public) you would understand the position PIV are in. Expect the land to be bought from PIV by the new tile factory owners and then PIV will vanish. The tile factory is being newly equiped with automatic production equipment. They would not make this investment if they had any concerns about moving within the next 5 years.
I cannot disclose too much but I can safely say I will never have anything to do with PIV shares again.
I am not trying to talk the price down to buy in or to let others buy them. PIV is worth about its current share price but it wont be converted into cash for about a decade.

ps planned development for the area the land is in isnt due for completion untill 2021. Also the tile factory is on commercial land the last to be fully developed in any resedential development project.

[topvest] 06/3/2005 21:45

Thanks. Best thing about Perloff is his Chairman's Statement every year for Panther - it's a real scream on anti-red tape stuff. It was so good last year, I wrote him a letter to thank him!

+ he does know a thing or two about running a property company..a very solid performer.

[hybrasil] 06/3/2005 21:42

Put it like this. I dont think you would buy the site for the current mcap. Look back on these threads for other views. I think someone was talking of much bigger figures. There are lots of hurdles to be crossed and if that is done is done sucessfully I would have thought at least double the current share price
I used only invest in property companies. I have met Mr Perloff. He is shrewd.I will go and look at Hawtin.

[topvest] 06/3/2005 21:36

hybrasil - how much do you think this company is worth? I've been looking at this one, but can't find a clear case for buying. Prefer Hawtin as it's more strongly cash positive and has Perloff nibbling!

[hybrasil] 06/3/2005 21:22

Smallchange.
Unlike you to make such an uninformed post,
That reads the posts you see like £1 by Friday.
How was it confirmed today "dont touch with a bargepole" or are you trying to buy shares?
Have you been to see the site? - I have.
Of course it will take time to develope this site and that is what I hope this company does. I am not interested in the meagre profits that will come from an immediate sale of the company.
So tell us why we should not touch it.

[smallchange] 06/3/2005 15:49

nope just had it confirmed today, dont touch with a bargepole. Its going to take years for the full position to become clear but I doubt PIV shareholders will ever get more than current value.

edit on looking at the financials I expect a small price rise, but it´ll take years to release that value. So it will be a very slow price rise.

[nod] 01/3/2005 19:02

I've decided to drop out at a loss - it could drift down over the years, while we are waiting.
I can't see it rising in the near future and there are many rising prices elsewhere.
Good luck to those staying in.

[screwed] 25/2/2005 17:03

Arthur

Whatever views one has about this site, it is going to form part of a comprehensive redevelopment scheme. It is located in an area of strong demand which is going to increase as time goes by. Redevelopment is not a matter of if, its when.

I like many shareholders am happy to stay in this company for the long term as I strongly believe we own a very valuable bit of real estate. With a little bit of rental income from short term leasing, to keep the pot boiling, this could be a great earner for our pension funds!

I am however worried stiff that we might get stuffed right at the end. Whatever one says we have a very secretive board. As for David Cicerel - !!!!

My previous posting mentioned the previous secretive PIT sale to Surface Coatings (whoever they may be)and the disposal of the Dorset Clay Pit. I stress, I havent a clue who the buyers were, and nobody has been able to tell me. For all I know it could be a Caymen Island registerd company owned by somebody who for their own reasons wishes to remain anonymous.

Does anybody else have concerns that the shareholders might have been "screwed" on the sale of Clifton and Dorset and that we may be being set up for the same to happen with Poole?

[arthur_lame_stocks] 25/2/2005 12:13

The current lease is up to 2009 maximum. The bridge is due to open in 2008/9 assuming all goes to plan from here.

Poole Council's website says "Construction of Poole's iconic Twin Sails Bridge is expected to take up to two years. The associated regeneration project sites will be phased before, during and after bridge construction."

I presume they will want the regeneration completed reasonably soon afterwoods not well into the next decade, but I may be wrong.

I think that the public enquiry due to take place this summer may prove critical for the whole thing and for PIV investors. Once we know whether the bridge is going to be built then there may well be some more interest in PIV.

Arthur

[smallchange] 25/2/2005 11:47

you are missing nothing, its just that there are three sides to this coin, one side that really doesnt matter but may affect share price if the market reads it wrong and my information is correct. However I will not post what I believe is occuring as I havent had it 100% confirmed yet. I will also not be looking for confirmation but just let it float my way.

Once I know more and if I take a position I will let you know, but that will take alot of time I believe.

[arthur_lame_stocks] 25/2/2005 11:17

smallchange

What more is there to this that I am missing please?

I'm pretty sure that Poole council are keen for the redevolpment to go ahead and I don't think they have 2015 in mind.

I don't think any investors in PIV do either.

Arthur

[arthur_lame_stocks] 25/2/2005 10:04

screwed

I agree that the manner in which this has gone on is very poor. I think we're just where David Cicurel wants us.

I don't believe that his interest is in maximising the return to investors, I believe it lies in getting this land from us as cheaply as possible.

Everything about the manner in which this has gone on from the disosal of all our other assets to the strange manner in which they attempted to sell the company suggests to me that something is not quite right.

Hopefully Mr O'Reilly and a few other shareholders have their own thoughts on where we are going.

Arthur

[smallchange] 25/2/2005 10:04

Arthur A long lease wont happen?

Think about it carefully and there is more to this than most think. But it wont make a great deal of diffrence to the value of the land, just the timeframe for the land to become available. Currently stands at 2-4 yrs but I hear that will be altered to 5-10 yrs.
That timeframe will not affect development of the land though.

[arthur_lame_stocks] 25/2/2005 09:59

Smallchange

I think i'm right in saying they have about 2 years left to run on the lease.

They may get an extension, depending on the time it take for this to go through planning but it won't be a long one.

If the development of Hamworthy is going to go ahead Pilkingtons are going to have to move. This is part of the plan.

There is absolutely no point in PIV granting a long lease to Surface Coatings for this site and it won't happen.

Arthur

[smallchange] 25/2/2005 09:40

Screwed be carefull the PIT lease has a minumum time on it, but the current owners of PIT are overpaying on the lease as requested by PIV. They will get a lease extension so I am told by those in PIT.

[screwed] 25/2/2005 09:25

Hybrasil

My concern is that the sale of other assets in the old PIT went through without any info being given to shareholders and in fact no consultation whatsoever. We saw no valuations of Clifton or Dorset and I am concerned that the shareholders may have a fait accompli thrust upon them with an MBO at a fire sale price ie value of the site without planning consent, or alternativeley a sale to some unknown buyer "Such as Surface Coatings" as in the previous sell off of assets.

This is after all now a single asset company whose value will remain depressed as long as there is doubt over the planning issue.

Once the planning situation has been resolved, the price is likely to rocket.

I.E. this is an ideal sit6uation for a well informed "raider" to exploit.

A secretive sale to an unknown buyer without competitive bidding just before the planning situation has been resolved would NOT be in the interests of the shareholders.

Do you still feel that the the history of the previous asset disposals is irrelevant?

screwed

[hybrasil] 19/2/2005 17:27

screwed
It is I think really quite irrelevant -read your interim report- the only asset of PIV is the site in Poole.

[screwed] 16/2/2005 17:12

Does anybody know who owns Surface Coatings yet?

Last time I tried to find out I came up against a brick wall!

Does anybody have any info on the Dorset Clay Pit site? That too was spirited away from us without any formal valuation.

[hybrasil] 15/2/2005 07:36

So at long last they told us there was no offer.
What next. I believe that we will see a level share price for the next 4/6 months and then things should start to get more interesting.