Poole Investments Share Discussion Threads

[hybrasil] 05/11/2004 15:27

ARthur
Thanks for that. What would this land be worth per acre with residential planning permission

[smallchange] 05/11/2004 14:45

MJ

I dont know the exact details, I have never seen the lease and am probably putting too much on my assumptions. I just knew that the lease is for 5 years not 3, with a 3 year break clause.

But surely there must be some provision for resiting Pilkington Tiles within that 3 year break clause.

Thats all I know, all the information I have recieved on PIT/PIV I have posted on the BB. I hope its of use and good luck in your future investments. PIV is now on my watch list and I may return to it in 3 yrs.

[mjcrockett] 05/11/2004 14:36

Smallchange, I have just spoken to David Booth regarding the 3/5 year lease question. He confirms your point that the lease is for 5 years and that there is a 3 year break clause. The company are required to give 1 years notice of any termination. However, there are no provisions for any penalty if the lease is broken at 3 years.

MJ

[arthur_lame_stocks] 05/11/2004 10:33

hybrasil

I'm sure there is going to be a bid. It's a very valuable piece of land with redevlopment going on all around and the new bridge due to be built. The current price values the co at just 9m or 12 with the debt. This is about 1.5m an acre which seems low to me given the location on Poole waterfront. If a bidder can also use some of those 16m in tax losses to offset against the future profit then the cost gets even lower.

It would be nice to have some information from the company but i'm not sure that they have the interests of all shareholders at heart and not just those of one or two.

[hybrasil] 05/11/2004 10:15

fall back in share price -time elapsing-is a bit going to happen?

[smallchange] 04/11/2004 15:00

mjcrockett,

Thre lease is for 5 years with a 3 year termination clause. The termination if it was taken at 3 yrs would mean PIV would hae to pay renumeration to Pilkington Tiles and pay for costs of re-siting the current plant. My source for this information is inolved directly in Pilkington Tiles.

[arthur_lame_stocks] 04/11/2004 11:14

Had a look at Inveresk but it looks to me like a lot of the value of that property is already in the price.

Anyway back to PIV!

[arthur_lame_stocks] 04/11/2004 09:43

Thanks mjcrockett, I think i've looked at Inveresk before, i'll go and have another look.

[mjcrockett] 04/11/2004 09:11

als, I suggest that if you are looking for a similar property play you should look at Inveresk (IVS) - also in Fife. They are a profit making company and have 20+ acres of land which is being sold off. I rang a local estate agent and they reckoned prime building land in Fife can fetch up to £1m per acre. Inveresk's land is about 15 miles from Edinburgh, whereas Pittards is about double that. However, the trouble with all of these property plays is they take such a long time to come to fruition - one can get quite PIV'ed off waiting.

MJ

[arthur_lame_stocks] 04/11/2004 08:42

latestarter

Straying off topic a bit but do you know anything about Pittards (PTD) or more specifically their 25 acre site at kinghorn near Fife. 10 acres has been zoned for housing.

I'm trying to get an idea of what it might be worth, it's up for sale at the moment.

it's only in the books for 0.5m.

Pittards has loads of problems despite this and i'm not sure i'd buy the shares anyway yet.

If you're interested stick something up on the PTD thread.

[latestarter] 03/11/2004 15:38

i still think you are straying wide of the mark, gallaghers cannot under any circumstances proceed with piece meal redevelopment, if there are no buyers they will buy it. its small change to what they have at stake, MLH should have allowed them to submit on their behalf instead of trying to go it alone, at least DC is there to make sure they dont balls it up any more

[mjcrockett] 03/11/2004 15:20

Smallchange, I can understand your reasons for sale. I will continue to hold. I am encouraged by Mr O'Reilly's purchase - even if he only paid 4.5p for these shares.

One query from your post. Where do you get the idea that the lease was for 5 years? In the announcement dated 1st June, the company said the lease was for a minimum of 3 years. I take that as meaning that the lease could be terminated on 1st June 2007.

MJ

[mcel101] 03/11/2004 13:18

Now now, Smallchange, you're beginning to sound like Mr O'Reilly..

[unionhall] 03/11/2004 12:55

That seems positive - Peter O'Reilly still accumulating - 600k yesterday...

[smallchange] 03/11/2004 11:15

hybrasil, that was the major part of my decision, the fact that not many shares were being taken from the market. There may well be bids for the Poole land but not at a price exceptable to the directors. Planning permission has been applied for the land next to the PIV site and when that is granted the land becomes more viable. The bridge that connects the land is the next question as it needs to be replaced and their are questions on whether to replace it with a solid bridge or lifting/swing bridge. The final part that sold me on there not being a bid was the lease held by the current tile factory for 5 years. I decided to take my profits and wait and watch on the sidelines.
Why am I still watching, PIV is probably undervalues at its current market cap the question is how long before any of the value is returned to shareholders. With current agreements the company can continue indefinately, paying off the debt with the income from the lease on the poole site. As time goes on the land will only increase in value and eventually this will be returned to shareholders.
My originall entry was to hold PIT/PIV for 3 yrs buyinmg at 3p selling at 9p for a 200% profit. In the end I got in at 3p and sold at 4.5 for a 50% profit in 3 months.
The reason, the situation changed and a valuation on the property is being made and It doesnt look as if the building industry is willing to invest capital to be tied up in the land untill the lease runs out. And so the value will come slowly over the next 3-5 years. If nothing is declared before the end of this year I actually expect the shareprice to drop as investors take out their capital to invest elswhere. This will only happen if no deal is done on the land.
Also expect the directors to hold on for good value otherwise why change the name if you are expecting to sell the company within the next 3 months, the FSA would allow the old name to be tradeed under if there was a finality to the name within a short period.

They are just my thoughts and opinions and I am sitting watching....

cheers and good luck all...

[hybrasil] 02/11/2004 11:58

850,000 shares traded in this today 600k at 4.5p
will we see a bid?

[arthur_lame_stocks] 01/11/2004 16:17

I'm not sure that selling the company is the best way to get the most value for the land as the complications of the potential pension fund liabilities may put some off. I'm not sure either that the manner in which the board is trying to sell the land is the best either, ie sacking the professionals and writing around a few builders themselves. It looks a bit like they're just making a show of trying to get the best price when they already have a buyer which suits them lined up.

Gallaghers had a decent sized stake at one time, I wonder if PIV wrote to them?

I'd like to know what O'Reilly's part in all this is.

I don't think we'll wait years for a result though.

[hybrasil] 01/11/2004 07:47

It is taking a long time for anything to happen here. I would guess the problem is that the major housebuilders are unlikely to want to acquire a company to get at the land as their very regimented buying probably would not permit it.ie simply as they are not used to it so they just wont do it. So for a deal to go through you need a niche player (with money) or someone who just wants a long term investment. Would we better off if the company was to hold the land and develope it? Probably not in the short term as the announcment that talks are off will have a negative effect on the share price. Maybe in the long term. Except it will be a number of years I guees before you see any benefit from it.
The longer these talks go on the less likely that something will happen.Why has someone not tried to buy shares in the market?

[mcel101] 29/10/2004 13:02

The attempt to pull the bid down to 4.25 last week to encourage weak sellers seems to have failed, and only 60K or so shares changed hands at that level, so we're back to 4.5 again. ADVFN seem now to have added PIV as an EPIC.

[arthur_lame_stocks] 29/10/2004 12:51

How long will we wait for some real news on the sale of the company. I really think we should have heard something by now.