Mood Media Share Discussion Threads

[kent_paul] 07/9/2008 12:35

AIM index started in 1994 at 1000, and is now below 800. In otherwords investors have lost 20% in nominal terms and over 60% in real terms versus 5% on cash since inception. That is a failed market. Its clear that if the market exists its only to the benefit of insiders, i.e. businesses IPO'ing at an inflated price only to be taken private at half the price later, or going bust and to generate transactional fees for the brokers. DMA on AIM for private investors would be a dramatic improvement.

[andy] 07/9/2008 11:59

Max,

An excellent post, but have you considered that maybe there aren't many trades because the spreads are too wide?

There are many times when I am tempted to take a punt, but the wide spread makes the risk too great, and I don't make the trade at all. Surely the system should encourage me to make the trade, rather than the other way round?

Canada is more transparent, and with tighter spreads, encourages both trading AND investing, IMO.

[max euwe] 07/9/2008 00:02

garbut, the AIM index has fallen from aound 1200 to 770 recently, not because of mm tactics, but because of just how rubbish most of these stocks actually are. A few years ago, many AIM stocks were trading on forward P/E ratios of 100+, now it's getting back to reality.

The spreads are very wide because there's virtually no trades. The mm's need to cover themselves against any sudden and unexpected large volume trades out of the blue, and that's why they have a large spread on some of these stocks. Any sells by pi's have to be sold on with a profit, and time is money.

Lots of AIM stocks have virtually no trades in a typical day. Compare that with some FTSE 100 stocks which have 12000 trades a day, there's no comparison.

Put it this way, if there's no interest, the margins will be high. When the volume of trades increases, the spread will narrow and the 'tree shakes' will disappear. It's called capitalism, or earning a living, and applies to every single sphere of our lives.

[mdwyer] 06/9/2008 22:16

Malkie...........Completed your poll and personally think AIM MM are complete and utter CON ARTISTS! They would never dare treat the big institutions on the main market like they treat PI's on AIM! You have my full support!

[malkie] 06/9/2008 21:21

the plan is to get 5000 responses to the poll first, then we start getting taken seriously - then we go to the media...

the hardest part is getting it started and creating the momentum so thanks for all your support!!

keep it coming!

[andy] 06/9/2008 20:47

Maybe a mention in the financial press would help? :-)

[malkie] 06/9/2008 20:42

thanks frizzers - thought this may strike a chord with you!

trust you are happy to have your article in the header ;)

245 and counting

please please please spread the word !!

we need to get to 5k asap!!

[andy] 06/9/2008 20:35

GARBUT,

Fair summing up there, IMO, AIM has become a cesspit, IMO, more akin to a casino than a regulated exchange.

[aughton 3] 06/9/2008 19:35

dealer ahead another favourite, guess what no deal goes through and the price moves

[frizzers] 06/9/2008 18:40

Hello All,
AIM is cr@p.
Love F

[garbut] 06/9/2008 17:40

I particularly cringe when I hear anyone say "The MMs are only out to make
a market"
I think those days are long gone.(Im referring to Aim stocks generally)
IMO I think MMs deliberately set out to part the small PI from as much
of thier hard-earned as they possibly can.No longer are they content to
make thier crust just from the spread.Theyve gotten far greedier than that.
Ive lost count of the number of times when sustained buying by PIs fails
to move the price at all and then out of the blue,miraculously,a seller
appears and everyone collectively sighs "Aaah,thats whats been holding the
price back".
The cynic in me suspects that the seller was approached by the MMs specifically
to hold the price back or conversely the MMs decided to short the stock
themselves rather than let the share price rise due to natural demand which in turn
would naturally produce sellers.
I relate an an actual experience I had with my broker quite a few years ago
when he was telephoning an order from me to the Market,after a while he
came back to me and apologised for the delay and then let slip with the
words"Sorry to keep you waiting but the MM was reading the RNS."
Needless to say the RNS hadnt appeared on my screen and gave the MM a few
precious minutes to digest the news ahead of me and I subsequently ended
up paying a premium.
Level playing field!
Rant over.Lol.

[corbys finest] 06/9/2008 17:19

I reckon theres a full time job there for someone.

A shareholder champion, who will fight for peoples shareholder rights.

Mots?

[tippingpoint] 06/9/2008 15:00

You could really hurt them and take away champagne, skiing and trips to the races.....

[corbys finest] 06/9/2008 14:43

You see what I mean!



Trenton8780 - 6 Sep'08 - 14:32 - 52 of 53


Excellent views & comments here. I fully agree with Corby's finest - hit the nail on the head there.



vbrs


Manager, Tie Rack, Corby!

[malkie] 06/9/2008 14:35

mots - with severe sanctions for transgressors.


I like it....what did you have in mind??

[trenton8780] 06/9/2008 14:32

Excellent views & comments here. I fully agree with Corby's finest - hit the nail on the head there.

The world of AIM is a murky place to be.

[mots] 06/9/2008 14:28

You know as well as I do that I was simply illustrating a point!

It's a fair cop!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

One aspect of the market I think that could be vastly improved, is transparency of dealing - with severe sanctions for transgressors.

[andy] 06/9/2008 14:04

mots,

well i read a press article about onlien poker, and they described many of the players as 'plankton', so maybe they are being offensive too? They were in fact referring to the inexperienced players being fleeced by the pros, exactly what is occurring on AIM IMO.

You know as well as I do that I was simply illustrating a point!


"so much so that so-called 'experienced investors' have little or no advantage over said 'newbies'."

I totally disagree, clearly experienced investors know what to look out for, and that is where the clever money leaves as others are loading up.


"We are regularly fed spurious company information and often subject to share price movements that we cannot understand"

Totally agree with this point, one of the warning signs for me to exit a stock is when I don't understand an RNS, and neither do others, or it is open to interpretation. That has served me well over the years!


"I'd say that the most successful experienced investors stay pretty well clear of aim stocks - the rest of us 'experienced' investors are just gamblers."

I totally agree with this comment too, most of my money is in the Canadian market, and I have the (current) benefit of the significant currency gain as well!

I now only hold two stocks on AIM, and have no intention to add to them, and once exited, doubt I will buy an AIM stock again under the current status quo.

[tippingpoint] 06/9/2008 13:56

Ok - I think the point of the thread is that we should all be on a level playing field. The MMs are imho preventing that from happening by their antics. You should, through experience, be able to judge the status of a company's progress and its likely future effect on price, subject to global economic conditions. The MMs should follow supply and demand so that poor company performance drops the price and good performance increases the price.

Regrettably many stocks are more likely to see rapid price movements if Tarquin the city trader wants to fund his annual trip skiing or watching the GGs at Ascot.

We have all been mugs, but if we can galvanise here its a start.

We have some interesting ideas to break the back of the MMs stranglehold on the UK AIM market, but can only push these forward if we identify that the majority of investors are equally concerned (hence the survey).

This is a real foundation for us to say (with some evidence) that investors are extremely dissatisfied and its time for change and new initiatives.

Henceforth, perhaps, Big Bang will not mean investors being rodgered by the markets.

Please all complete the survey. With the ideas we have it could save you thousands of pounds in the next few years.

[corbys finest] 06/9/2008 13:33

Everyone needs a Langbar in their portfolio imo. It then stands as a constant reminder not to be foolish.

My tutor was Telewest and Energis. never looked back since.

[mots] 06/9/2008 13:33

Andy,quite honestly I think it is offensive to describe 'inexperienced newbies' as plankton.And you miss the point of this thread with that view - we are all subject to the vagaries of the aim market,so much so that so-called 'experienced investors' have little or no advantage over said 'newbies'.
We are regularly fed spurious company information and often subject to share price movements that we cannot understand

I'd say that the most successful experienced investors stay pretty well clear of aim stocks - the rest of us 'experienced' investors are just gamblers.