Kesa Electricals Share Discussion Threads

[corrado8] 26/10/2011 09:20

If Kesa get delisted what will be the value of the share????as I hold 40.000 of them,any advice?Thanks.

[attrader] 24/10/2011 17:01

interesting , i thought that delisting news would have negative effect on the share price . So, trying to understand share price action. Is it due to comet sales and expectations of special divi or does it always happen with companies delisting from Ftse ?

[brx7] 24/10/2011 16:51

so who purchased comet?

[prokartace] 24/10/2011 16:11

Took a long time for the market to react from a sunday newspaper report!!!!

[liam1om] 24/10/2011 16:04

LONDON (SHARECAST) - Kesa Electricals saw its share price rocket on rumours that it is to delist from the FTSE index. In a report from the Sunday Telegraph, Kesa is set to leave the London Stock Exchange and is also considering changing its name following the sale of its UK retail chain, Comet.

[prokartace] 24/10/2011 15:58

markt o market

[prokartace] 24/10/2011 15:39

Some people you lot are, share price up 15% and not a peep!!!

[bobsidian] 13/9/2011 13:10

"I'm not doing nothing.....I am doing something...."

No you are not. That is the point.

You are not DOING something ; you have DONE something.

And having DONE something, you do not believe what you have DONE merits the spending of any further time on its review or revision.

And it is that approach - or an absence of an approach - which is identifiable as an outcome of the modern education system.

"You work in the education system by the way ?"

On a day to day basis I am on the receiving end of the product of a culture which either champions brevity and abbreviation or encourages unrestrained and poorly formatted outpourings on sheets of paper.

You end up asking yourself: "What are these people trying to say ? Why are the writers of these communications leaving me, the reader, with the responsibility of deciphering the unintelligible ?"

[markt] 11/9/2011 20:14

je je

I'm not doing nothing.....I am doing something....just something different than you seem to think I should do !

"revisionist" "the outcome of the modern education system"

You work in the education system by the way ?

[bobsidian] 30/8/2011 09:29

"...perhaps you could revise my posts and then post new revised versions..."

"...you seriously expect me to apply a "revisionist approach" and revise my posts..."

And therein lies the outcome of the modern education system.

YOU do not want to spend any of YOUR valuable time in reviewing and revising the contents and format of your own posts, but you are quite prepared to suggest somebody else should spend THEIR valuable time in revising YOUR posts.

You are not alone. Many members of the younger generation have the same mentality - rather than appreciating the benefits or advantages of doing something rather than nothing, they seek out reasons and excuses to justify doing nothing. In that context, the aggressively defensive tenor of your posts is not a surprise.

[markt] 26/8/2011 11:23

...je je !!

(..I cant believe yours posts....you seriously expect me to apply a "revisionist approach" and revise my posts....so that they meet better your personal requirements ?!.......uh, no, ! )
-----

"You make some interesting comments in your posts"

.....so imo, my posts are more than good enough...

[bobsidian] 25/8/2011 10:14

"I thought this was a shares website message board....for posts of opinions....not submissions of articles to say to the Financial Times...."

Says who ?

"...perhaps you could revise my posts and then post new revised versions..."

A saddening response and wholly symptomatic of the current age. Why spend time doing anything yourself if you can get somebody else to do it for you ?

[markt] 25/8/2011 09:54

"I note the outcome of the current form of the education system is that a number of generations of students have and are expressing an unwillingness to apply a revisionist approach to their writings or musings."


je je !!

I thought this was a shares website message board....for posts of opinions....
....not submissions of articles to say to the Financial Times....

...if you are skilled at the revisionist approach ( !!)....perhaps you could revise my posts and then post new revised versions.....for the benefit of all !!

[bobsidian] 23/8/2011 03:10

You make some interesting comments in your posts but your "stream-of-consciousness" style of writing does not lend itself to an easy read and as a result the points you seek to make can be lost in the blizzard of words.

Perhaps you are not used to writing commentary or reports with the reader in mind. I note the outcome of the current form of the education system is that a number of generations of students have and are expressing an unwillingness to apply a revisionist approach to their writings or musings. By not adopting such an approach an onus is placed by the writer on the reader to make allowances for any shortcomings enshrined within any writings.

All too often I hear the refrain "I have written something once. Why should I spend any time in revising what I have written ? If the reader cannot understand what I am saying, then that is their problem.". Little wonder employers complain about the new generation of employees not being prepared for the world of work when the art of effective communication is considered a waste of time.

[bobsidian] 22/8/2011 11:27

Your comments in post 118 seem to be suggesting that the financial crisis is a new event and that recession is a new economic phenomenon. In the western economies the financial crisis has remained throughout the course of the last 3 years. It has not been resolved. And the much vaunted economic recovery since late 2009 has primarily been generated on the back of the consumer ceasing to defer consumption. And that economic recovery has largely been a "jobless" recovery resulting in unemployment remaining at elevated levels - but not deteriorating. When in recession economies do not fall indefinitely into an economic abyss. They find a base level of activity. And even in countries with 20%+ unemployment such as Spain, that still means that there are up to 80% of the working population in employment.

And you seem to believe that reducing credit lines or credit limits automatically equates to a decline in consumption as though all credit lines or credit limits are being fully utilised by every consumer all of the time. How many people have a credit limit of say £5,000 on a credit card but only utilise say £2,000 of that limit ? If the lender decides to reduce that limit from £5,000 to £4,000 does that impact on your current spending ? No, of course not.

Those who have credit and do not fully utilise it tend not to be the ones applying for new credit. It is the marginal new credit applicant who is struggling to obtain finance. It is that refusal which crimps the prospects for recovery in a consumer orientated economy.

[markt] 22/8/2011 09:50

....KESA down 50% since May....down 10% in previous 2 trading days....broken support so could easily drop a lot from here, quickly.

While FTSE is up 2% from opening price of Friday....

so

the place for a shorter to be is quite clear !

[prokartace] 22/8/2011 07:59

I guess you 2 have nothing else to do other than spending hours writing letters to each other. I say look at the macro view. Huge debt piles wherever you look. Double dip recession. FTSE headed to 3500. Why worry about individual shares until then?

[markt] 21/8/2011 21:58

ah---new -ve number

wage bill excluding directors is around 2M per day....assuming open 6 days per week...slightly less if 7 days...

PAT was 31M (down a lot)

So.....that big monster wages machine would chew thru the profit for last year is about 15 days !!!


Wow, KESA sure is geared.
You can see why they try to sell Comet...with sales down 7%....
if produces another year like that then its loss will imo increase....
and the year after if economic problems continue (expected).

and noting that the trading after year end was bad and worse than expectations.

[markt] 21/8/2011 20:38

Adjusted EPS 10,9c (9.6 p)
Reported EPS 6c. (5.3p)

If give it a P/E of 7 then 7 x reported EPS gives 35p.
If 7 times adjusted EPS then 67p.

And profit numbers for this year will be bad imo with Comet having a hard time....and Spain and Italian branches...and getting worse imo....economic growth and spending has been in downward trend...
===

Profit A.T fallen from 43M to 31M !! (euros)

And finance cost of 14M
If profit falls to 20M then the finance cost becomes a big worry.....very high % of PAT.

And staff costs are 875M......the risk to the profit is massive.....tiny changes in sales or margin and the staff costs and operating costs will wipe out the profit or make it a loss.

And pension deficit will have increased imo.
And if any lay offs that will be one off costs.
And if property value write downs that will be a hit to the accounts.

Comet sales were down 7% like for like !
Could be more this year. Would produce a greater loss imo. High shop costs still there.
Last year margin reduced....likely again this year.

5.9Bn in sales and only 31M PAT.
Tiny %.
But fixed costs are a high % of the sales.
Wow !!....that is very worrying in a falling retail market......
you could cough and the PAT would go negative.

====

2Bn E. assetts. Reduce by 125M for intangibles and reduce plant etc by 50% due to the crisis (retail property values have crashed imo, perhaps more than 50%. 565 to say 300.
Gives 1,6Bn real assetts.
Liabilities 1.8Bn E.

-ve assetts of 400Mn....with cap. value of around 550M.
-ve assetts is high % of cap. value.

AND
lets assume that COMET is sold for 0 pounds and 100M pounds to take it away...
assetts then gets reduced by say 40%...to 300M and then lets reduce the remainder by 56M to get 200M.....and increase pension deficit by 50M.....
and sell off Italian/Spanish parts for 0 reducing assetts by another 50M say....

then get 1,9Bn -100M-256M-56M -50M -50M = 1,3Bn approx. real assetts
and 1.8Bn liabilities (some already included in assetts calcs)

-ve equity of 500M.....approx. the same as the cap. value NOW.
Half the cap. value to 250M (easily happen imo, share price is collapsing)
then the -ve equity is DOUBLE the cap. value. NOT good ! and bankers wont like it very much....especially since one part of company is currently making losses !!...and trading in last quarter was BELOW EXPECTATIONS !!...ie. getting worse...

Not a pretty scenario imo.....the reason that the share price has been falling to quickly....and with big volumes....big holders are getting out....
====

and with such a small % margin...and not enough cover for the borrowed assetts in shops but not yet sold....suppliers could easily start to worry and alter their terms hitting the small margin....or require insurance cover for payment which would hit the margin...

====

Oh, and if Comet is sold....how will the financing of the unsold good be done ?
Any possible buyer has enough finance to act as a g'tee ?
Not many around could do it imo.
782M of total inventories...say 300M for Comet. And 1.2Bn of trade payables.
Not many buyers around that can take on that type of number.

===

Worrying as well that payables 1,2Bn is much more than receivables + inventories. 1,01Bn
Why ?!!

It is 200Mn -ve but it should be positive imo !!
Infers they have sold stuff and not passed the money to the suppliers imo !!...ie. a debt that they did not want to pay....and one assumes that they can not pay...


===

And !!

Total shareholder funds. 200M approx. well...if remove intangibles....and make other adjustments as I have done above....then you can see that current shareholder funds is in fact negative......

====

And from the calcs. made higher up....imo the money to pay the divi may not be there...37M euros.

Ah, people who invest for dividends....don't ya just love 'em !....

[markt] 21/8/2011 20:34

and

"trading since the year end has been tough and worse than out expectations"

"Given the positive impact of the worldcup and the one off multimedia intiative in the UK in the first half of last year....."....

they are already paving the way to announce bad results in this current fin. year...
and Comet sales were down 7% like for like last year.....

[bobsidian] 21/8/2011 03:57

Stockmarkets have a knack of defying what could be construed as received wisdom that further precipitous falls are yet to come. Quite a few technical analysts are looking at 2007 rather than 2008 and are suggesting that a move higher to at least test the recent highs could occur from mid-september to the end of the year. But even they suggest there may be further selling to come with the world's market leading index - the S&P500 - moving down to test the 1,020 level seen in June 2010. Such a move could see the FTSE100 drop down to around 4,500.

However, some of the more positive technical analysts have a different view. They note that the S&P500 is testing relatively significant and historic support at the 1,120 level and the move down to once more test this level could potentially be a set up for another sharp rebound.

The unknown is the pace of fund redemptions which see the good shares being dumped along with the bad. When such redemptions occur at pace they make a mockery of chartism and technical indicators. Only the very brave or the markedly ignorant get in the way of such market forces. So many investors recall the devastation of 2008 and fear a repeat of that scenario. And reacting to that fear by selling out to reduce or eliminate their equity exposure can create the very stockmarket phenomenon they fear.

Those who believe we are now reprising 2008 recall the world economy went into serious reverse in Q4 2008. But at that time from July 2008 the numbers being laid off in the US were already running at around 250,000+ per month and that they hit stunning peaks of 700,000+ per month through Q4 2008 and Q1 2009. This time round you are not seeing the same level of job loss preceding Q4 2011. In fact in the US private sector jobs are being created though at a sharply reducing pace. Commentary suggests many in the US have not experienced an economic recovery. Around 8 million jobs were lost in the US throughout the 2008-09 recession and only 3 million new jobs have been created since. And the experience of many in dealings with banks since the height of the financial crisis continues to be along the lines of "do not ask for credit as refusal often offends" whilst others find their existing credit limits and credit lines being reduced or withdrawn.

So with this as a backdrop quite a few commentators suggest stockmarket activity is more a crisis of confidence with a fear of an impending economic crisis rather than a true economic crisis. Going forward the BLS statistics will doubtless be viewed with considerable interest and concern as an indicator of the underlying strength or otherwise of the US economy. It would not be the first time that stockmarkets have anticipated a recession which has not subsequently materialised.

However, such a sanguine view may be rendered irrelevant if we are indeed on the edge of the next major banking crisis which undermines all economies of the world. If banks are once more not lending into the wholesale money markets and are being forced to use the discount window whilst selling the most liquid of their assets to generate financial flexibility then all bets are off as equity markets continue their plunge. "Fiddling while Rome burns" comes to mind as politicians take their "well-earned" breaks.

[bobsidian] 21/8/2011 02:49

I just get a bit wary when there is so much doom and gloom about equity markets. Much selling has not been share specific as fund redemptions accelerate a decline in indices.

You look at DSGI, HOME, GMG, etc. and they have already experienced precipitous falls to extraordinary levels. Then you look at the charting patterns of MKS, KGF and KESA and see they have held up quite well relative to the aforementioned.

One look at the sector indices of household goods (NMX3720) and general retailers (NMX5370) suggests that the major fall may yet be about to happen. And that major fall is likely to take down the best of the rest. The comparative strength of the balance sheet of KESA appears to have shielded it from the precipitous falls of its competitors. But as you say, that may about to change. The best are usually the last to fall in a stockmarket sell off.

[markt] 20/8/2011 18:53

...the 7p fall in 1.5 hours on Friday from the start....was perhaps the whoosh that you referred to...5-6% quite big...creating oversold situation....and bounce back...

I think that is now over....so back to downwards !

the same could easily happen on Monday...