Invista Share Discussion Threads

[envirovision] 25/3/2011 07:44

Yes furtyher down the road, however no dividend declared and no return of cash, instead expects to do a share capital reduction.

In my experience capital reductions always screw the shareholder. The market price never ever adjusts itself to properly reflect the reduction.

I've seen many over the years, and never ever do they favour the shareholder,

[skyship] 25/3/2011 07:38

Hmmm - a hell of a lot to plough through.

Does it look like 27.5p CASH and a reduced NAV of 40.7p?

Certainly they are much further down the track of liquidation than one might have supposed.

Could be some value here:

[redhill9] 24/3/2011 09:51

Thanks Skyship, and thanks also to Horndean whose post 191 I somehow managed to miss!

Disappointing as the decrease in share price has been, percentage-wise for potential gains from here we appear to be in a similar position (of maybe c.30% upside) to the start of interest in the INRE realisation and dispersal.

However, as you say, sensible to wait and see the results before buying in case of anything unexpected emerging.

redhill

[skyship] 23/3/2011 08:57

Horndean's 191 above revealed the JPM estimate of 37p as a conservative NAV. That would imply a fair %age upside and shows there to be some value here. However, for my part I will wait and see what Friday's Finals tell us - if anything!?/~#

[redhill9] 23/3/2011 08:27

There were suggestions not too long ago that c.46p per share was attainable on distribution within, say, 18-24 months.

Clearly recent events have dulled that target, but by how much? This morning's offer price is around 27.5p so from that level do we think an eventual 36p is achievable, giving an overall gain of 30%, or is management credibility so damaged that even 36p is now thought too ambitious?

redhill

[badtime] 22/3/2011 22:19

intriguing stuff

[envirovision] 22/3/2011 18:10

you should note also there was a 205,000 trade at 27p which looked like a sell, i imagine the market maker/s took it upon themselves and were turning it at 27.5p

[envirovision] 22/3/2011 18:03

Skyship, I dont know, I cut in half my holding though as was able to skim some profit at 27.5p myself. I thought we were headed for 25p on the open to be honest so was glad to reduce risk.

[skyship] 22/3/2011 17:02

A genuine 150k bought @ 27.5p - auto-trades. Must be some realism to that JPM estimate of the NAV. Perhaps some light at the end of a long tunnel; hopefully Friday's figures will deign to reveal. Still amazed that they didn't issue an RNS on the IERE shares sale.

Enviro - do you think that may be your "determined buyer" paying a tad more to get the stock?

[badtime] 21/3/2011 22:09

lol...definitely mad!!! but keep buying!

[envirovision] 21/3/2011 21:55

Theres been a reluctant seller and a determined buyer at 26.5p for the last few days, i managed to slip between them at take a few on the sets book with a limit order, just one of my more mad moments really.

[badtime] 21/3/2011 20:23

Also maybe cast one eye on the management.

What was the Paul Simon song...slip sliding away...gd job ive only a few shekels on ths one

[hugepants] 21/3/2011 10:33

This is a good example of how difficult it is to work out a liquidation value for anything other than a cash shell. I think its best to work out a prudent estimate then knock 30% off for safety.

[skyship] 18/3/2011 08:39

Yes, waiting for next Friday's Finals in the anticipation that there will be some clarification on the assets, as we were discussing earlier this week...

[envirovision] 17/3/2011 21:39

Events for 25th Mar 2011

Final Result

[scburbs] 17/3/2011 08:46

Morning Skyship,

Receiving 3.5 months revenue, but not having to incur the costs of carrying out c 5.25 months of services looks good to me. This makes it pure profit as any closure costs they incur they would have probably incurred following October 2011 anyway. It should also speed up any distributions.

Were there any details on how many of the INRE HBOS funds management team were transferring to Scottish Widows?

Overall it looks like good news to me, albeit not that large.

[skyship] 17/3/2011 07:45

At first glance the compensation is equivalent to just 3months of Revenues!

Still, it represents an addition to most calcs of liquidation proceeds; so positive nevertheless:

[scburbs] 15/3/2011 10:24

Skyship, LOL! Yes, it certainly is. Until HE pointed me in the direction of those RNS I was under the impression that INRE had not subscribed for any shares in the IFD placing. This was because when they did participate in the IERE placing they released an RNS and had not made a disclosure or any comments in other releases about INRE investing in the placing. However, the RNS certainly caked my previous "perceived" clarity with a thick coating of mud!

In an attempt to get rid of all this mud I have had another look and it appears that my orginal view that they did not participate in the fund raising was correct.

At 5 November 2009 Lloyds disclosed 31,379,266 shares (9.697%).

"20,255,594 shares (6.260%) are under the control of Scottish Widows Investment Partnership Ltd, a wholly owned subsidiary of Scottish Widows Group Ltd, a wholly owned subsidiary of Lloyds TSB Bank plc, a wholly owned subsidiary of Lloyds Banking Group plc (Direct/Indirect Interests).

Within the Scottish Widows Investment Partnership Ltd holdings, 5,821,918 shares (1.799%) are managed on behalf of St Andrew's Life Assurance plc, a wholly owned subsidiary of Halifax Life Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary of Clerical Medical Investment Group Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary of HBOS Financial Services Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary of HBOS Insurance & Investment Group Limited a wholly owned subsidiary of HBOS plc, a wholly owned subsidiary of Lloyds Banking Group plc, and are therefore disclosed as an overall Direct Interest.

Within the Scottish Widows Investment Partnership Ltd holdings, 13,443,082 shares (4.154%) are managed on behalf of Clerical Medical Investment Group Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary of HBOS Financial Services Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary of HBOS Insurance & Investment Group Limited a wholly owned subsidiary of HBOS plc, a wholly owned subsidiary of Lloyds Banking Group plc, and are therefore disclosed as an overall Direct Interest.

3,735,000 shares (1.154%) are under the control of Invista Real Estate Investment Management Holdings Ltd, a wholly owned subsidiary of Invista Real Estate Investment Management Holdings plc, a subsidiary of HBOS Insurance & Investment Group Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary of HBOS plc, a wholly owned subsidiary of Lloyds Banking Group plc (Indirect Interests).

7,283,807 shares (2.251%) are under the control of Invista Real Estate Investment Management Holdings plc, a subsidiary of HBOS Insurance & Investment Group Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary of HBOS plc, a wholly owned subsidiary of Lloyds Banking Group plc, and are therefore disclosed as an overall Direct Interest."



The next disclosure at 20 December 2010 sees them with 31,136,259 prior to the disclosure and 28,809,643 after the disclosure. This supports my original expectation that INRE did not participate in the IFPT placing in July 2010. The excess shares appear to be in funds that INRE manage.

[badtime] 15/3/2011 09:18

yes those finals will HOPEFULLY help

[skyship] 15/3/2011 09:16

scburbs - would you not agree that the situation as to who actually OWNS what is as clear as mud!!

I think the INRE management should clarify matters; and perhaps they will do so with the FINALS on 25th March...

[skyship] 15/3/2011 09:04

HE - thnx for all that

Badtime - obviously disappointed, but the perhaps over-pessimistic JPM assessment still suggests a 37p NAV, so will now just sit it out for the duration. With 100% hindsight the JPM negativity was a good call @ 32p, but as we are now @ 28p it is plainly too late to sell; and a near-term BUY may be more likely.

The £10m costs seems high; and no upside allowed for the possible sale of the Asset Management Division.

Unfortunately I haven't sold any.....and it is still my intention to top-up.

I'm pretty long cash so casting around for ideas as the Market settles back to more sustainable levels. Actually up today, primarily due to the SUK2 bought yesterday!

[scburbs] 15/3/2011 09:00

HE,

The IFD disclosure details the shares held by INRE at the bottom. I did make an error as I thought the below were 3 separate holdings whereas it looks like the 5.8m is within the 19.265m so the total should be 17,178,082. However, it is possible that some of these shares are owned for the benefit of other funds of whiche disclosure is not required as they do use the phrase "control".

"19,265,000 shares (5.413%) are under the control of Invista Real Estate Investment Management Holdings plc, a subsidiary of HBOS Insurance & Investment Group Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary of HBOS plc, a wholly owned subsidiary of Lloyds TSB Bank plc, a wholly owned subsidiary of Lloyds Banking Group plc, and are therefore disclosed as an overall Direct Interest.

Within the Invista Real Estate Investment Management Holdings plc holdings, 5,821,918 shares (1.636%) are managed on behalf of St Andrew's Life Assurance plc, a wholly owned subsidiary of Halifax Life Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary of Clerical Medical Investment Group Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary of HBOS Financial Services Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary of HBOS Insurance & Investment Group Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary of HBOS plc, a wholly owned subsidiary of Lloyds TSB Bank plc, a wholly owned subsidiary of Lloyds Banking Group plc, and are therefore disclosed as an overall Direct Interest.

An additional 3,735,000 shares (1.049%) are under the control of Invista Real Estate Investment Management Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary of Invista Real Estate Investment Management Holdings plc, a subsidiary of HBOS Insurance & Investment Group Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary of HBOS plc, a wholly owned subsidiary of Lloyds TSB Bank plc, a wholly owned subsidiary of Lloyds Banking Group plc (Indirect Interests)."

[badtime] 14/3/2011 20:22

bit of a heads or tales situ then

sky i take it u stil hav yur bite..topping up? :)