Imagination Technologies Share Discussion Threads

[hammerd2] 24/9/2017 15:22

D - is that a direct live quote from AH from this weekend relating directly to taking legal action or a rehashed version of what has been said previously ? 'Being forced into this situation' - is that taking legal action or what he said months ago when he announced the company was being put up for sale ?

[hammerd2] 24/9/2017 15:17

IMG are like the mafia.

[sweenoid] 24/9/2017 15:13

Hammerd- K, keep up old chap!

you said
EDIT - also, where does it say that IMG entered into a legal dispute with Apple on 22/3 September ? IMG announced they had invoked the dispute resolution clause months ago so that would seem to be the start of "the legals".

Arbitration is one thing but a legal dispute involving making a claim is another matter altogether. Look at any definition of arbitration you want and it's always separate from and BEFORE a legal action

in The Sunday Times article I posted this morning Andrew Heath clearly states

Imagination is now pursuing a legal claim against Apple, arguing that the Silicon Valley giant will be unable to develop its own graphics chips in-house without infringing its patents. Apple claims that it would not owe any patent royalties.

“It is really very sad that Imagination has been forced into this situation by Apple, when their claims remain unsubstantiated,R21; Heath said.

Arbitration is therefore DEAD IN THE WATER, there will be no mitigation , it will either be settled by mutual agreement or in court'

now someone else has suggested the date that the actual legal proceedings against Apple were issued, I would have imagined that this would be ongoing before the agreement with Canyon was inked in.

What I WOULD expect is an RNS from IMG dated tomorrow stating the fact that they are now in a court action against Apple, that's what we want to see as shareholders and that's what will excite the world press, the issue of Apple's perfidy is something that should be covered more widely and indeed be global , lets hope it is so, as it will ratchet up the pressure on them.

Have I got this wrong?
S

[tombelfast] 24/9/2017 14:56

James I agree with with your thinking, but imagination has to start somewhere and a £1.82 bid and a 50% share in any future payout from Apple should flush out apples intentions and position in all this,
And it should also show us just how much cayon bridges really wants imagination with a higher premium to its first offer. Apple has much more to loose here including its reputation ,if it even truly cares about that, as its not about a exploding battery.
It's seems it's not just politics that has no lows, big corporations hide terrible
Injustices because theirs money involved, just as families rip each other apart over money in a will. Such is life.
Can't wait to see this all play out with imagination, now it's got a white knight in cayon bridges, but cayon bridges could share a substantial pay out with us,imagination shareholders, it also wants a good deal, but we are no mugs if Apple offers most of us enough money ,we will probably be happy to say goodbye to canyon bridges, and thank them dearly for there services, it's just bussiness as they say,
But at the moment we truely need cayon bridges to play this corporate game of chess.
It's going to be exciting holding imagination shares. Good luck to everyone invested in imagination.

[theyak] 24/9/2017 14:37

Would love to be fly on the wall at their pre-market meetings. I think we'll all be a bit excited at 7.59 tomorrow!

[hammerd2] 24/9/2017 14:26

I've taken a screenshot of the list of notified short positions. Just for fun.

#schadenfreude :-))

[hammerd2] 24/9/2017 14:18

Before we all get too carried away :

1. Apple have not, to my knowledge, claimed that IMG IP is not used in iPhone 8/8S/X - didn't they (via IMG RNS) claim that royalties would not be due in new products from next year onwards ? Remember, Apple claim that they designed the GPU. They also design the CPU but they still pay ARM. Maybe they won't be paying royalties from next year because their architecture license does not include per unit royalties. IMG's assertion seems to be that they have the architecture license but will also be using royalty yielding IP on top.
2. Unless they have received notification privately, not even IMG will know whether Apple are asserting non use of IMG IP in the iPhone 8/8S/X until they receive a royalty statement from Apple including sales from the September quarter.
3. Apple only pay circa £60-70m a year. For purely "what is due" then that is a figure to base compo on x years. Plus compo for shareholder and reputational value destruction.

I would dearly love to see Apple cough up a shedload, but don't want to get too carried away. I think I'll be holding for a while yet while this pans out.

Apple are past masters at legal cases and being "right" doesn't always win. Any Apple jam will be a bonus to the main event.

Are there any Japanese/Taiwanese/Indian/US outfits who could be in the game still ? No end of potential VC guys I guess, so it's impossible to work it out. I do not think it is Apple or they wouldn't be engaging in legalities.

EDIT - also, where does it say that IMG entered into a legal dispute with Apple on 22/3 September ? IMG announced they had invoked the dispute resolution clause months ago so that would seem to be the start of "the legals". There must presumably be a time limit for something to come of these discussions one way (agreement) or the other (court m'lud). Maybe that's where the 60 day thing has come from in the announement.

[theyak] 24/9/2017 13:56

Thing is James, it all depends where you start from! To anyone who bought in over the last couple of months it's a very good outcome, to any one who bought at close to £3, not so good. As the saying goes "We are where we are"

[jamesrowe] 24/9/2017 13:31

At first reading of the repeated posts from Borromini 1 I was tempted to dismiss them. However, the following quote from the 1st link by Borromini 1 above rankles somewhat:

“The proposed acquisition is a VERY GOOD outcome for Imagination’s Shareholders which the Imagination directors are intending to recommend unanimously. Imagination has made excellent progress both operationally and financially over the last 18 months until Apple’s unsubstantiated assertions and the subsequent dispute forced us to change course."

It is like congratulating a bully for the fact that he did not kill you when he beat you up! How can it be a VERY GOOD outcome for shareholders when the price prior to the Apple announcement, said above to be the cause og IMG's latest woes, was near to £3?? Surely a very good outcome would be for IMG to be victorious over Apple in or out of the courts leading to a good settlement plus damages for willful infringement and a share price recovering to £3+ on that basis!!

....and why does Canyon Bridge get 50% of any excess settlement above the amount that they were expecting with only 50% going to shareholders??

[sweenoid] 24/9/2017 13:27

great posts and thanks, I particularly like tombelfast's views

it appears that the boot is now firmly on the other foot here, Apple ARE being sued, I would guess for both patent infringement and also being a culpable cause of a huge fall in IMG's share price and damage to its corporate dealings and reputation.

The funds are now or will be in place to fight a proper protracted battle in court, This is really fun.
S

[theyak] 24/9/2017 12:59

It's a bigger gamble tomorrow than it was a few weeks ago or even last Friday, I'm not buying any more tomorrow but not selling yet either. Gone to plan so far, I always felt a Chinese offer was the best bet and never thought Apple would get involved but over the last few weeks I now don't see Apple as such an outside bet, this is only my view DYOR.

[fhasson] 24/9/2017 12:55

Late to the mooted party so will observe and learn but well done all those deserving traders for their tenacity/ luck

[tombelfast] 24/9/2017 12:44

I tell you what I think and what I buy, but not what to think or buy.
If you have the slightest doubt then do nothing.
Nobody here has a crystal ball, so believe in yourself,and good luck.

[stoxx67] 24/9/2017 12:40

any naked shorts will get shafted BIG TIME on this, however one suspects the PRO's are hedged as it was very plain IMG was in bid talks and no one knew what was coming ,as evidenced by the complete lack of action Friday.

i too believe Apple will be forced into a corner now, which is great, what goes around comes around and to be fair, the money they will have to pay to secure the takeover of IMG will be peanuts to them and if you weigh this against the bad publicity that would come their way with legal action , you would think that they have to make a bid now as this is the ONLY "easy" way out of this for Apple.

[fhasson] 24/9/2017 12:29

Is it too late to buy some shares tomorrow as a small PI due to shenanigans?

[tombelfast] 24/9/2017 11:49

I won't be selling any of my shares on Monday, it's just getting interesting now,
Imagination is sueing apple and justifiably so.
Now we know for sure why Apple wouldn't prove to imagination that it hadn't infringed imagination patents , because the whole industry knows that it has infringed them after specialist have looked at Apple's new phones .and its just a matter of time with the legal eagles proving it in court. Imaginations timing is great regarding there issueing of legal proceedings against Apple as cayon B can afford the fight against Apple, and my guess the pay out could dwarf the takeover price of £1,82.so apple really need to bid big time and save themselves time trouble and money ,
And very possibly another court case against Apple ,regarding possibly trying to destroy imagination as a company, and drive down its valuation for a cheap take over.
Once imagination or its new owners prove this, the payout from Apple could be substantial, that's why I believe apple will come back with a great new offer, and with no court case, no other payout , and apple gets all the IP and a company full of first class staff and frees management time to screw some other vulnerable company.
It's still all to play for in my opinion.
And the stakes have never been higher .

[dealy] 24/9/2017 11:47

Shorts that didn't close at a still very low price last week deserve to get shafted tomorrow. Lenders of these shares will probably want their shares back so they can vote

[hammerd2] 24/9/2017 11:35

I did a bit of reading on this a while ago but have never experienced it in the wild so to speak but it seemed as though the companies loaning the shares (annoyingly, often nominee companies using our shares) do so at an agreed rate - so they could, say, lend Marshall Wace 1m shares at 130p (£1.3m) and charge a fee for the loan plus an interest rate. I'd assume there would be some agreement on the loaner being able to require the return on a given date or earlier in special circumstances (e.g. The real holder of the shares selling their holding) but that's just pure guesswork.

Can't wait til Tuesday to see how the shorts change...

[hammerd2] 24/9/2017 11:25

Other bids can come in and not be Board approved - in that case they need 90%+ of shareholder approval.

For the court approved sale as we are currently in, with MONI I'm pretty sure - and was surprised that - it was 75% of those who actually voted not 75% of shares.

I'd guess we'll see some sort of one off payment from Apple to buy them protection against future legal cases. About £486m would do it 😗

borromini - what's been paid and invested is irrelevant really. It's what someone is willing to pay. Are Intel really not interested or just not interested in getting embroiled in something Apple are clearly exercised about ? Surely $75m to get MIPS (integral to their billion dollar Mobileye investment) doesn't seem too outrageous.

[borromini1] 24/9/2017 11:19

dealy - Are all or only some share borrowing contracts worded such that the lenders can demand the return of the borrowed shares at any time?

Theoretically could large numbers of lenders demand their IMG shares back on Monday morning forcing the Shorters to buy in the market at any price during Mondays trading session or resort to any pre-purchased Short cover shares?

[hammerd2] 24/9/2017 11:16

Thanks timbob

[dealy] 24/9/2017 10:56

Borrowed shares are paid back in actual shares. It's up to the shorters to obtain them and they will pay whatever price the market demands. Regarding other bids: can come in anytime but will only be recommended if they do not jeopardise what is currently being offered

[nicandy] 24/9/2017 10:52

If it says a sale has been agreed can another company put a bid in?

[borromini1] 24/9/2017 10:11

Apple claim first Apple designed GPU in A11 bionic chip included in iPhone 8. Apple start selling iPhone 8 on Friday 22 September 2017, the product with the alleged IMG IP infringement. IMG start legal proceedings against Apple on Monday 25 September 2017? One thing about the Chuckle Brothers is a certain decisiveness in their actions, lets see how quickly they progress towards a UK iPhone 8 import ban and global damages award against Apple.

Vote NO to MIPS sale and NO to acquisition offer until IMG shareholders get clarity on key value issues.