Hochschild Mining Share Discussion Threads

[dt1010] 02/12/2016 19:19

It is the reason I bought silver for a long term hold.
I did own a lot of gold for years (for me) but apart from some bought recently I sold it all.
I do want to buy some more again. But to be honest the gearing in the miners is more attractive to me than hold a lot of gold.

Lets be honest. The debt governments have is never going to be paid back, it is a mathematical impossibility. So they will securitise it against real assets. There is no better security than gold. The price will I think eventually go to $10,000 an ounce.

It doesn't matter how much gold the US has either. However much they have, each dollar of debt will become worth a certain amount of gold.

Russia is buying all the gold it's country produces. They know the dollar has a limited life in its present form. National wealth will in the future be measured in weight of gold held by central banks - the UK should start rebuilding its gold holdings.

Today I believe today offers the best opportunity to buy miners since January this year.

[maximoney1] 02/12/2016 19:11

With regards previous conversations on bullionvault, two advantages are, that you can hold physical metal outside the jurisdiction of UK and banking system, plus you can obtain an exposure to silver VAT free. The difference in this set up is the 'bailment' laws which apply. The physical metal is held in allocated form.
I wouldn't hold all physical in one location or one company, but as a diversification tool, it has its uses....imo.

Buying 'silver brits' is prohibitive in UK, once you add the VAT, plus the dealing spread/fabrication costs. I think you need about a 60% gain just to break even
eg 1 brit(+vat)=£20.27 to buy, to sell £12.77 (ball park figure)
ie, buying a silver brit today, it needs to get to £32.50 or thereabout just to break even.
Or...if you go the storage route...how much do you trust a high street vendor/company to store your silver brits?
All about the balance of risks.

Incidentally, silver has tentatively made an inverse H&S pattern, so there might be more upside to come. Happy release to us bugs. :-)

[jimbowen30] 02/12/2016 18:13

DT - I'm 90% sure this will happen. The million $ question is timing. TPTB could kick the can down the road for longer than we think.

[dt1010] 02/12/2016 17:54

'Ultimately, I think we will see a big financial reset with gold partially backing a new monetary system. At this stage it would be revalued massively'.

Agree 100%.

My target for silver is $160/ounce - will be led by gold.

Will take years but my children have time on their side.

[chipperfrd] 02/12/2016 17:45

Bond yields have already gained c. 26% since the election result. 10-year T bond is now at 2.38%. So some big capital losses to bond holders.

Debt maintenance on their US$20T debt is already rising. I don't see why what the Fed do (or not do) will make any difference. At some point the market drives these things rather than a load of academics who have never had a proper job.

But I expect the narrative will be benign whatever they do - so best ignored!
Chip

[jimbowen30] 02/12/2016 17:29

Pixi. On the debt issue, I posted this on the gold and silver boards last night. If I get sent the slides of the presentation, I will post a link. Otherwise, I,cause it will be on YouTube soon.....

I attended the Mines and Money conference this week. The highlight of the show was a presentation from Grant Williams who writes Things that make you hmmmm and is an adviser to Vulpes investment management in Singapore. It was literally one of the best presentations I have ever heard. The gist of it was that whilst everyone is assuming things will be good under Trump, don't jump to conclusions. He sees a scenario where the Trump infrastructure spending, inflation and rising debt pushes yields on US Treasuries up. China is lowering their exposure to Treasuries and we are likely to see an abundant supply over the next ten years. Rising yields will led to a huge issue with US debt payments. China is also likely to start trading oil is yuan, which is a game changer. All this leads to downward pressure on the dollar and is very bullish for gold long term.

Ultimately, I think we will see a big financial reset with gold partially backing a new monetary system. At this stage it would be revalued massively.

[goldenshare888] 02/12/2016 16:47

Yes, it's a: BUSTED FLUSH IN US!

GOLD & SILVER - NEW HIGHS COMING

[pixi] 02/12/2016 16:41

The other problem to do with hiking interest rates is it increases the cost of servicing debt, government debt in particular and could lead to a sovereign default. When one domino goes down, others will follow. Those paying mortgages won't be too happy either, or those with loans.

The dollar has retraced a little which is why gold is up a little. I would go carefully here because the dollar will strengthen a lot when they hike interest rates and gold and silver miners will go down a lot. I suggest that would be a pretty good time to buy. There's no hurry, let's see how things pan out before making any moves. Gold has already fallen to 1160 thanks to midnight speculators spread-betting this week, which was equal to a HOC price of 202. When it falls next time the move is likely to be very strong taking gold down a lot more, taking HOC to maybe 175-160? Who knows...

[onedayrodders] 02/12/2016 16:25

gaaston .. it's all connected ... good NFP's mean rate hike = PM weakness = HOC weakness...so you have to see through the clouds

To continue

Behind the headline number print ....

Since 2014 The US Has Added 571,000 Waiters And Bartenders And Lost 34,000 Manufacturing Workers

Multiple Jobholders Hit New All Time High As Part-Time Jobs Soar

[hectorp] 02/12/2016 16:10

OFF to the races, Fr up 7% we are up over 5% , looks more like 6. :-)
Great gearing v silver 1%

[dt1010] 02/12/2016 14:42

Silver up, HOC up, BUY NOW IMO

[gaaston] 02/12/2016 14:14

Meantime, we are talking about HOC and its prospects

[onedayrodders] 02/12/2016 14:11

At least Zerohedge comment further than just the headline

Americans Not In The Labor Force Soar To Record 95.1 Million: Jump By 446,000 In One Month


Why did the unemployment rate tumble from 4.9% to 4.6%? Simple: the number of Americans who are no longer in the labor force spiked by 446,000 in November, hitting an all time high of 95.1 million.


Payrolls Rise 178K As Unemployment Rate Tumbles To 4.6% But Average Hourly Earnings Worst Since 2014

[k mon] 02/12/2016 13:35

Exactly Pixi.
Any 'new' system or system re-set will take some time to get going again.

so - have loads of Sardines & porridge on standby.

Some 'Cash'

Some PM's Physical

And the rest 'invested in what may turn out to be the basis of a new Banking system. - that's all I'm trying to say - in investing - it's called diversity.

Not that any one thing or system is 'wrong' or 'right'

-If you have a load of Physical - there is a strong likelihood - that it will be - by some measure or other - confiscated.

The best you can hope for - is an equitable return.

and judging by the performance of the current lot of opinion makers - that looks increasingly unlikely, as they seem more inclined to Piracy, by befuddlement and the spreading of confusion.

[pixi] 02/12/2016 13:16

Let's get practical here. Remember what happened in Greece a couple of years ago? You can agree on anything you like, but when the financial system implodes and cashline machines stop paying out your cash and your bank accounts are frozen, how do you eat?

[pixi] 02/12/2016 12:51

All this is just making the case for gold and silver even stronger than it already is. Central banks policies have not worked, business growth is negligible and people are losing their jobs. Little wonder they voted for Trump to turn things around. But he is not superman and soon the euphoria will wear off and reality will bite.India is going to be in a hell of a mess shortly over withdrawing banknotes to suit the western political elite. If people cannot eat, all hell is going to let loose. In addition, there's the worldwide backlash against socialism as the incumbents like Obama walk away leaving everything is a mess.

[honestjim2] 02/12/2016 12:38

Italy’s December 4 referendum could make or break your wealth this year. If it fails, the EU, which has the world’s largest economy, will likely fall apart… triggering an epic stock market crash.

[pixi] 02/12/2016 12:36

crosseyed

BBC News interviewed a lot of people yesterday who were all saying NO to Renzi. It appears that he has annoyed a lot of people and they concluded that a swing to the right was inevitable. A lot of people are out of work. I guess the anti-establishment trend established with Brexit and Trump is continuing. Next year France and Germany have elections and the right wing is on the rise in Europe. Austria is also holding elections and all this could lead to the breakup of the EU as people rise up against the establishment, political elites and globalism.

[crosseyed] 02/12/2016 11:55

pixi,

The Italian referendum on Sunday is about constitutional reform, not about the EU. Matteo Renzi has threatened to resign if he does not attain a "yes" vote. He wishes to remove power from the Senate in favour of the lower house. In doing so, he intends to streamline Italy's public administration. However, if the vote is "no" and Matteo Renzi does resign, it is speculated that Italy's government might move to the right and in favour of anti-EU parties.

On the topic of gold, there was an article in today's Financial Times claiming that China is placing curbs on the export of renminbi and on private imports of gold.


c

[pixi] 02/12/2016 10:46

I suspect that the Italian Referendum on Sunday should be supportive of Gold prices particularly if they vote OUT of EU.

I also hear that the price of gold in India is now $1900 oz due to bank notes being removed from the system. The poor over there are getting smashed and that is bound to cause a lot of resentment for the government.

[pixi] 02/12/2016 10:33

Chip, thanks for that.