Hochschild Mining Share Discussion Threads

[february 30th] 24/11/2016 19:13

Hectorp,

If you are correct, then the so called manipulators, who surely know the market better than us, would be adjusting their positions beforehand. They are not going to wait for a catastrophic realignment.

[hectorp] 24/11/2016 19:04

It beggars belief all right! but it is the key phenomenon of US paper market control.
Our only way out of this is clearly - to me- not Court case stuff in the US, or arrest of Comex manipulators ( they would easily walk) but price discovery in the East. Not long as it will be $3 premium over silver, and $100 for gold. It may only be some months away
Extreme premiums of that nature , even of today's dichotomy - ridicules the fact of the existence of Comex. It is going to become a timber horse, a stage struccture, a pantomime.

[topicel] 24/11/2016 17:06

Thanks as ever Chip. Any updates appreciated. The pain in my portfolio is severe but, as they do say, it is only really felt when one sells at a loss, unless we are seeing a 2008 bank moment in PMs and total capitulation, like RBS holders from £5.50 to 10p and never any hope of recovery... :(

I have plenty of time for the CEO at First Majestic and did wonder why other major gold/silver miners don't bust the system wide open. It must be in their interests too, but how or why eludes my tiny mind other than largesse...

Maguire was originally a whistleblower of sorts, was he not? Panorama even did a show on the gold price manipulation eight years or so back I believe, and presumably not much came of it. It really needs more exposure on a big flagship news paper or channel to bring this fallacy to an end. But again, many would say the media are controlled enough to not wish to go there.

I can't see how such massive jolts downwards can be just ignored so readily as there is no logical market reason for them when they happen other than a concerted 'attack'. But how to prove it? I understand some cases are being investigated but all very hush-hush and with minor fines and rebukes a la the mortgage-backed crisis won't make much difference if hundreds of millions are being made and fines are in the tens at most.

Reminds me of the daft fines to football players, usually barely a few hours wages for bad behaviour!

So, Maxi's observation about big smack downs through key levels is well made too. It leaves little chance for recovery within weeks, or even months. I was in Barclays the morning after Brexit having set a stop loss at £1.85 the night before. It wasn't honoured as Osbourne delayed the open and when it did it opened at £1.35 and my stop wasn't triggered.

No amount of arguing the toss came to much. But look at the price today...I hope there is a moral there somewhere for peeps to cling to if they are getting fried by this present madness!

Topicel

[maximoney1] 24/11/2016 16:46

Actually chip, it is because i see an accelerated timeline for the takeover in price mechanism by the physical exchanges, that persuades me that the drops instigated by comex must now be steeper for TPTB to execute their plan. All the ground work has been laid out for these (CB)institutions to buy up real assets with monopoly money, watch them get heavily 'involved' in miners purchases once they get it to the bottom. I think SNB and Norway have already set the template, but it will(imo)gather pace in due course. Of course at that point, getting onboard with TPTB 'onside', will prove to be the ride of ones life...imo.

[chipperfrd] 24/11/2016 16:35

maximoney,

The paper markets (LBMA & COMEX) have been controlled for decades by banks acting for 'establishment' clients.

The Open Interest on COMEX silver is still more than a year's global production and for gold it is around 1,500 tonnes. Near-term contract closures are usually just transferred into long-dated future months. It is all a real disgrace and could not exist if it was not in the interest of government's.

In the 'real' world you just cannot buy metal at these paper prices, yet they are trotted out by Kitco, et al, as the global spot price.

It is being shown up now by the published physical price on the SGE, and other physical exchanges are also in the pipeline. Yet we hear nothing from the (so called) world gold council and the silver institute, which are just establishment mouthpieces for the paper scam. And the PM producers are no better, as they do not have the balls to protest - except for the CEO of First Majestic - to give him credit!

One day it will end - but it's been an awful long time coming!
Chip

[february 30th] 24/11/2016 16:31

I don't own HOC, but I'm guessing a fed hike would soon put it back over 300, and the bull market in PMs would resume. No hike - a five minute bounce and more stagnation.

[maximoney1] 24/11/2016 16:09

Another thing to notice, is that when highly significant price levels are being 'taken out', they are done so with force, ie $1250 & $1200 gold levels, no messing about. This signals to me 'intent' by TPTB.
Might get a sideways grind over short term between $1180 & $1170, but i think if/when $1170 goes, it will be another substantial move. At this stage, i would be pleasently surprised if gold price gets back up above $1200

[chipperfrd] 24/11/2016 15:40

Topicel,

I don't know the situation for Wednesday yet. It's delayed by a full day. After Tuesday there was still 511 tonnes gold outstanding, but we have to assume a big drop yesterday.

I am away on my laptop so don't have other numbers (total OI, etc) to hand. Will try and update once we get fresh info from COMEX trading.
Chip

[maximoney1] 24/11/2016 14:54

re comex...
Just a small point to ponder, not sure how much validity it has, but now that certain levels have been breached in the PM's, momentum will now be with the downside(seen several death crosses across metals and mining indices etc), thus the OI can decrease substantially and still maintain downside pressure on price with lower levels of shorts(since there will be equally less long positions). Happy to be corrected by the more experienced.

The way i was reading it, the OI simply highlighted the 'energy' pent up, waiting to be released, whether the move was up or down, ie a battle, with winner takes all effectively.

[topicel] 24/11/2016 14:30

Good point Chip. Aside from the last fortnight the price they have been getting for gold and silver production sales is even stronger when taken as a whole for the second half.

There will not have been much change in production because of this election euphoria swing in sentiment. Indeed, it would be daft if they were really giving it much attention as far as their development and debt reduction plans go.

That is still an important consideration HOC-specific. The only way they'll consider the market price is when it comes to setting the dividend, and perhaps even a special dividend, as a reward for those holding during this contrarian period.

Btw Chip, was there a big paper sell down yesterday to cause the latest drop in PM prices on the Comex? Is that open interest still looking too large?

Topicel

[chipperfrd] 24/11/2016 13:35

DB,

Average realised gold price over 1H16 was $1229 and silver averaged $16.01.
3Q gold was $1334 and silver was $19.48.

So unlikely that average realised prices over 2H16 will end up less than the 1st half. So one would expect better financials for 2H.
Chip

[charles clore] 24/11/2016 13:22

DB - a Hillary Clinton US president was also very likely and all over the news.

[daybreakers] 24/11/2016 12:42

I don't expect good production figs with the silver/gold price fall.

[daybreakers] 24/11/2016 12:42

Fed hike is very likely, all over the American news.

[dt1010] 24/11/2016 11:34

No Fed action in Dec and this will roar back.

[lauders] 24/11/2016 11:23

Unfortunately, unless you are waiting to buy of course, this looks like it is heading for 200p! Hopefully not less. I hope a return to the mid-200s comes soon after and so will all those who buy!

[johntrustee] 24/11/2016 11:21

25% down in 2 weeks. I am on the sidelines witing for the bottom, which I think could still be some way off. The markets seem to think Trump is setting the stage for a bull market in equities.

[onedayrodders] 24/11/2016 10:38

Juju ... I know you regard many of the media gold bulls as nut jobs but this was a great call from Rick Rule back in August...



No guarantee he gets it right all the time but for me next time he speaks I'll be listening more closer at least.

ODR

[lauders] 24/11/2016 10:29

Good luck pixi.

Next drilling update (production figures) in January spagnolia.

[spagnolia] 24/11/2016 10:28

I am sure we are due drilling news anytime soon to?

[pixi] 24/11/2016 10:12

I doubled my holding in Hoc just now. It'll probably show up at the end of day.

[juju44] 24/11/2016 10:05

I think 1180 could be the bottom - until FED decide otherwise , which they may or may not

[spagnolia] 24/11/2016 09:57

Does anyone have any up to date charts?