HMV Share Discussion Threads

[walrus5] 17/12/2012 12:53

if banks are selling a company debt, I presume thay are doing so at a large discount. Surely they could offer the same deal to the company and perhaps end up saving jobs and keeping the company alive.

[nolens volens] 17/12/2012 12:50

And the only posters who actually declared any trades on these bbs recently were Netley Lucas and myself and a guy named lemmink over on lse.(all sells btw)

A right bunch of Jean Savins on here eh Netley.

[nolens volens] 17/12/2012 12:46

Where's Lady Liz wasn't she giving us a series of one line posts too recently about a share price rise here - without a shred of evidence to back up her position. Where is she now. It's like your Shri 9s and your Lucindas. They are selling while you are buying

[nolens volens] 17/12/2012 12:41

Clocktower

I actually personally gained from the pump and dump you orchestrated on here recently. But you and your ilk still leave a bad taste in the mouth

[nolens volens] 17/12/2012 12:40

tech mark

You see that last word in your post - that should be an adverb.

[techmark] 17/12/2012 12:15

The problem is that the new deal appears to have changed very little. There doesn't appear to be any meaningful cash generation to repay the debt, and there's not much left to sell. I think the suppliers are helping it get through Christmas and then it will be in the hands of the banks.

It's a shame to see HMV go, but they were just to slow to change. Fox and his board did a terrible job. If you get any HMV gift cards this Christmas spend them quick.

[nolens volens] 17/12/2012 12:09

Clocktower,

The real problem you have now is that you have absolutely no credibility whatsoever when you talk about hmv. Nobody minds if somebody changes their mind about a stock upon receipt of news. But there is a limit to how many times you can change you mind without appearing to be totally silly. Thai Police Squad, tech mark and loganair all have a similar problem to you on here but to a much lesser extent.

Here's another of your posts from only last week


"Looks like a nice bounce has started which should run and run now with a few goods RNS.

Risk to Reward looks good for a while imo. Good Luck long holders as the tide turns on shorters."

So the thing is we are never going to be sure when your next 180 degree total spin is going to be.

[totally banjo] 17/12/2012 12:03

Famous faces help launch Hillsborough Justice single He Ain't Heavy at Liverpool HMV
By Jade Wright
Dec 17 2012




FANS queued up at HMV in Liverpool this morning to buy the first copies of the Hillsborough charity single He Ain't Heavy He's My Brother.

Celebrity supporters Kenny Dalglish, John Bishop, Andy Brown, Carl Hunter, Peter Hooton, Keith Mullen and Mike McCartney were behind the counter selling the CD.

* Click here to see our full Hillsborough archive

Comedian John Bishop said: "It was a real honour to be asked. I'd say my role is more backing vocals than anything. They've drowned my singing out a bit which I think is probably for the best.

"Thankfully they've also brought in Paul McCartney and Robbie Williams to even it out.

"It's a really good record. I'm proud to have helped in my own little way and I hope everyone backs this single and sends it straight to number one."

Members of the Justice Collective served behind the tills and helped customers buy the record.

Ex-Reds boss Dalglish, who sold the first physical copy of the record, said: "We're all here for the same reason. We want to see justice for the families and we're all here to support that."

Andy Brown, of chart-topping band Lawson, sings the first line of the record.

He said: "It was an unexpected pleasure to find out I was singing the first lines of the song. I've worked with Guy Chambers before and he asked me. I went to his studio and sang the whole song through a few times and that was it.

"I'm a huge Liverpool fan, and a huge Paul McCartney fan, so it's been a real honour for me to be involved. I came here today to help in any way I can. We all want to make sure this single gets straight to number one. I'll be buying a copy for everyone I know."

[nolens volens] 17/12/2012 11:57

Shareholder Lover boy

There's a totally crazed guy next door talking to himself all the time someone please call the doctor.


Aye but Graham 2405 and illbetabuck isn't just posting next door. He's posted on here non stop all morning, in iii and on lse and he doesn't have any financial interest here. Straight Jacket case right enough

[totally banjo] 17/12/2012 11:45

Wall Street fund looking to force control over HMV
Monday 17 December 2012, 11:17

Is New York-based investment outfit Apollo Global Management – which owns the CKX company and therefore the 'Idol' franchise and most of Elvis Presley Enterprises – planning to seize control of flagging music retail firm HMV?

Well, the Sunday Times was busy speculating about Apollo's interest in the HMV company yesterday following news that the Wall Street company had bought £20 million of the retail firm's debts from the Allied Irish Bank.

It's the first time one of HMV's moneylenders has sold on some of its debts, and came as the entertainment company last week admitted that it was set to break banking covenants in January, and was now busy negotiating with bankers to try and avoid the worse case scenario of failing to meet performance targets in its loan agreements, which would force the business into administration.

After a spike early last week, HMV's share price tumbled to 2.37p following the company's latest financial statement, that also confirmed the retailer was currently posting a loss of £37.3 million for the first half of the current financial year. That gives the company a market capitalisation of just over £10 million, compared to £1 billion when it first floated on the London Stock Exchange a decade ago.

Apollo, which was linked to a bid for EMI in early 2011, now controls about 10% of HMV's debts, and the Times says it is looking to acquire more, possibly putting it in a position to force control of the retailer if and when covenant tests are failed in January and April. Quite what Apollo would want with HMV isn't clear, though the brand clearly has some value if it could be separated from its high street liabilities.

There were rumours last week that HMV could go into administration this side of Christmas, or at least announce the closure of some of its stores, though management insist neither are currently on the agenda. But, assuming the company makes it into 2013, January is going to be make or break once again, and with the likes of Apollo now in the frame, it may not be current management who ultimately decide the entertainment retailer's immediate future.

New speculation about the collapse of HMV comes as electronics retailer Comet shuts the doors on its retail chain for the final time, having gone into administration last month. Hopes that a deal could be struck with an unnamed buyer to keep 140 Comet stores open now seem dashed, with administrators instead hoping that a sale of the brand and its online business will bring in some money for creditors.

[shareho1der] 17/12/2012 11:43

There is a TOTALLY crazed guy next door .Talking to himself all the time .... Someone pls call the doctor .

[totally banjo] 17/12/2012 11:31

graham2405=low life.

[clocktower] 17/12/2012 11:20

Bearing in mind that a lot of the stock is in effect on loan to HMV (as I expect title is retained by the supplier untill paid) there will be very little to liqudate if or when the plug is pulled.As for stock that has been supplied on scan and sell basis, I expect that payment would have to be made within a very short period of time - maybe days, to make sure that they as suppliers are not left with an even larger black hole.

[graham2405] 17/12/2012 11:02

If suppliers take control, they'll take control in the same way that the suppliers took control @ Clinton Cards....



This may be why a fund has started to buy the debt, perhaps they are speculating on a Clintons type deal, alternatively they are attempting one themselves.

They could always just be doing it to force the issue, i.e. wait for HMV to default (covenant breach) and then force HMV to pay back the debt in full or issue a winding up order.

These vultures know their business..........

All IMHO

[loganair] 17/12/2012 11:01

"Having bought £20m of senior debt from Allied Irish Bank, Apollo is reported to be considering further loan purchases that would eventually see it become one of the company's biggest creditors. It would then be able to team up with other investors or flip its position to another would-be predator, the report said."



Apollo has around US$80bn under management and already owns bingo and casino operator Gala Coral and the estate agency Countrywide. It is also bidding in partnership with rival fund JC Flowers for the branches put up for sale by Royal Bank of Scotland.

And RBS are one of HMV biggest creditors.

[loganair] 17/12/2012 10:57

What I'm surprised by is still how low the trade volume is. I wasn't an investor in Game, how ever I kept an eye and can remember during the last couple of weeks before they went under on some days 1/3rd to 1/2 of the company was traded in a single day.

[loganair] 17/12/2012 10:48

The very best hope for any share holders accodring to the Telegraph article "There is the potential, given the minimal market value of HMV's equity, that at some stage in the future suppliers could take full control of the retailer."

Most probably though will lose the lot.

As for myself - looking for that dead cat bounce to sell my last few remaining shares.

[graham2405] 17/12/2012 10:42

"Hence for the banks, the optimal time to "pull the plug" is sometime between Xams and the New Year."

Completely agree, this is the 'optimal' time to pull the plug.

Not in anyones interest to pull it before Xmas, and not in the banks to let it run another year.

[loganair] 17/12/2012 10:40

From £2.72 a share to 2p – why HMV crashed

[graham2405] 17/12/2012 10:38

"I started this thread up to try and keep it factual as in what was being reported in the general media (good or bad) along with hmv's own promotional activities without additions from posters with their own short term agendas."

These are investment discussion forums they are for facts and for opinion, as I said they are not fan clubs........

If you want a fan club start one elsewhere, alternatively argue your point without resorting to name calling.

In short, I think that HMV has had its day, it is history, life moves on. If you do not, lets have an intelligent argument, who knows you may yet convince me otherwise.

[loganair] 17/12/2012 10:22

Woodsman2004 - It cost very little for HMV to re-stock as they only have to pay for most of it after they have sold it and is why I'm astonished that they haven't be able to make a go of it during 2012.

"Record labels and film studios are giving HMV supplies on consignment to ease the financial pressures facing the retailer."

"The retailer was boosted by more than £40m of funding in the run-up to Christmas from entertainment suppliers."

[graham2405] 17/12/2012 10:20

"I am astonished how HMV are still unable to make a go of it considering they only have to pay for stock once it is sold."

If this was the case it doesn't explain why HMV owes its suppliers over £141million (trade and other payables, i.e. the purchase ledger), this is in addition to the bank debt.

Total assets of £219m
Total liabilities of £400m

Net liabilities of £182m

There are a few things that kept this afloat last year:

Generous at a price banks,
Generous to a fault suppliers,
and most importantly, cash from the sale of assets.

Even IF the banks and suppliers stay on side, the debts will get little if any relief from the sale of assets next year.

If the debt can grow with £30m+ of asset sales, what will it do without those sales

Failing a massive xmas trading period, the start of which has already been reported as slow, this will be the last Xmas......

....IMHO, DYOR.

[woodsman2004] 17/12/2012 10:19

The Express is only half right.....

If you analyse the cashflow of a business like HMV you will see that Xmas is the time when there is the most cash in the business by a long chalk. As soon as you get into the New Year, cash drains away quickly as sales fall and the business re-stocks.

Hence for the banks, the optimal time to "pull the plug" is sometime between Xams and the New Year.

In this case I expect that HMV will survive till the New Year, and I agree that a pre-pack in 2013 is likely. And if they can get some yanks to take some debt off their hands, all the better as the underlying business model here is busted and I cant see any pre-pack really solving the long term problem that the only time anyone buys DVDs or CDs is at Xmas for your nieces and that anyone under the age of 40 downloads everything.

I sold 1,000 CDs to Music Magpie - do I miss them? No not a bit!