Hibu Share Discussion Threads

[freddie ferret] 22/11/2013 16:36

When I set up this thread I was intending it to be a moderated thread but messed up a bit.
However we now have a person probably with multiple aliases coming on here making a nuisance of themselves.

I would like opinions as to whether I should start another thread which will be moderated ie I ban the crooks. Answers please.

[ep0ch] 22/11/2013 10:16

chocbrownpants. I've been a HSG member since the early days and never have I seen the phrase "I call the shots" been used by any member. Nor does my experience of HSG resemble yours. I therefore have serious doubts over your authenticity.

The only people threatening to put hibu into administration is the current BoD. Why?

HSG membership closes on the 29th November - just 7 days. So if anyone is sitting on the sidelines I highly recommend that you join. There are no guarantees on the outcome, but what this group is doing is amazing and historic.

ps. Say hi to Bob and Mike for me.

[themoocha] 22/11/2013 08:43

Chocbroon - LOL.

I can almost smell it !!

[chocbrown] 21/11/2013 18:05

I was a member of hsg but totally lost interest when early on I realised it was being run by and for a secret cirle of ten.

Any constructive critcism, questions or suggestions for strategy were never given a voice, but silenced by Belcher and the 10 with their myriad aliases on the hsg website.

There was never any democracy because as Belcher said " I call the shots" i.e he decided what the end game would be. The 10 Directors were chosen by him secretly and he decided not to pursue a legal battle against hibu (yet members were urged to contribute to a legal fund).

The sad downfall of hsg is that it has been led by a meglomaniac inept bully for his and 10 others own benefit. This guy should stick to changing light buls up in Widnes & bullying his oppos.

This has been a great opportunity missed because of this man.
If hibu does go into administration he should be ashamed of himself

[freddie ferret] 21/11/2013 16:25

The link below and what follows is now very old, however it is worthwhile pointing out that FOUR former directors of Polaroid are now senior executives of Hibu/Yell. Hope I will not get rapped knuckles for posting this.





The Rape Of Polaroid
By Christopher Byron
NYPost.com
7-23-2

Get ready for yet another 10-digit accounting scandal from the world of big business: The astonishing disappearance - behind the drawn curtains of a federal bankruptcy court in Delaware - of more than $1 billion of corporate assets from the books of Polaroid Corp., and the reappearance of most of it, free of charge, in the pockets of a Wall Street buyout fund.

How this has happened stands as a cautionary reminder that bankruptcy courts are one of the riskiest places of all for investors. Yet as the economy weakens and more and more big companies keel over, that's where more and more shareholders are likely to wind up.

For what awaits them, check out the plight of bankrupted Polaroid Corp.'s shareholders, who are about to be shorn of $1.1 billion in balance sheet assets and $175 million of shareholder equity.

THE ploy? An accounting maneuver that is shifting the assets, seemingly free of charge, from Polaroid's books to the books of a Wall Street partnership that is set to take Polaroid private in a buyout for less than $24 million of actual cash money.

Some of the biggest names in high finance are involved in this stunt, from the fancy-pants law firm of Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom to the infamous Arthur Andersen crowd.

There are lawyers from Davis Polk & Wardwell in the game, along with attorneys from Aiken Gump, as well as advisers from Zolfo Cooper, Houlihan Lokey and Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein.

This is corporate embalming's A-team, and for months its members have been trudging up and down the courthouse steps of Wilmington, Del.'s federal bankruptcy court in preparation for the solemn and final act that will send Polaroid to its eternal reward.

That act will take place on July 29 in New York - most likely in the offices of one of the law firms involved - when the parties will sign on the dotted line to close the sale.

By doing so, they will convey 65 percent of Polaroid's reorganized common equity, including 65 percent of the value of those $1.1 billion worth of mysteriously missing assets, to the aforementioned Wall Street buyout fund.

According to a Polaroid spokesman, the purchase price for the shares will be $255 million. But court papers in the matter indicate that less than $24 million in net new cash will be all that the buyout fund actually hands over.

At that point, Polaroid will become a private entity and no longer required to issue public financial statements. So the company's ravaged public investors will never get to see those $1.1 billion of balance sheet assets - including a priceless corporate art collection and the stock of all Polaroid's foreign subsidiaries - magically reappear.

In reality, the assets hadn't disappeared at all. They'd simply been valued at zero for the purposes of the bankruptcy proceedings, even though the company had valued them at more than $1 billion in a public financial filing only eight weeks before going bankrupt.

In this way, balance sheet assets that Polaroid had listed in an official financial statement with the Securities and Exchange Commission in August of 2001 as totaling $1.8 billion shrank by October to less than $715 million when the company entered bankruptcy.

In the process, shareholder equity - which totaled $176 million in the SEC filing - was wiped out entirely and replaced with a negative net worth of $385 million.

The chief beneficiary of these lowball numbers has of course been the aforementioned buyout fund, which bears the name One Equity Partners and is financed by Bank One Corp. of Chicago.

ONE Equity Partners, which was brought into the deal by the Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein bunch, turned out to be the only known bidder in a court-ordered auction of the company last month. As a result, its offer won, in effect, by default. "It's ridiculous," said one incredulous Wall Street analyst, speaking of the price. "Bank One is making out like bandits."

In fact, the fund could easily wind up getting the whole company for free.

For starters, Polaroid's most recent bankruptcy court filings show that as of June the company had more than $108 million of cash on its books as well as nearly $50 million of marketable receivables. On top of that, a creditor's committee report to the court late last month suggests that more cash has piled up from Polaroid's foreign operations and that the actual cash outlay of net new money by One Equity Partners will be $23.8 million.

And don't forget that once the fund is in control of the company, it will be able to recover even that money by borrowing against all those assets on Polaroid's books that had been valued at zero in the bankruptcy proceeding.

Not surprisingly, when I asked a Polaroid official to name the individual investors in One Equity Partners, he declined, saying, "It's private. We're not divulging that." When I next asked whether the fund's investors included members of Polaroid's management, he waffled and said only, "Not that I know of."

With closing day for the sale fast approaching and with so much money at stake, a cloak of secrecy and double-talk has enveloped the proceedings.

THUS, when I asked the Polaroid spokesman why the company's balance sheet assets had shrunk so dramatically between August and October, he answered only that it was because Polaroid's foreign operations were not part of the bankruptcy petition.

In reality, of course, the foreign assets were included - as they legally had to be - but were simply given no value on the submitted schedules.

When I asked why the assets had been assigned no values in the schedules, even though they'd previously been valued at more than $1 billion by the company in its SEC filings, I was told to read the company's press releases to get myself "up to speed." The press releases turned out to offer no explanation, either.

A similar request for enlightenment via Polaroid's outside public relations firm in New York brought a promise to produce a legal expert to answer questions. But no expert was produced. When I phoned back a day later for an explanation, the spokesman said, "No one is interested in talking."

Later, the man provided a transcript of some hearing testimony on the discrepancy as if it would clear everything up. It didn't.

AT the end of the hearing, the judge in the case, Peter Walsh, ruled that Polaroid's stated reasons for not having listed values for the foreign operations were reasonable because the foreign operations really only had a value as "going concerns" within Polaroid's overall global operations.

But that is simply to say that the assets of the foreign subsidiaries are entirely goodwill, which is hardly the case. Polaroid's latest annual report prior to bankruptcy lists company-owned facilities totaling more than 1 million square feet of manufacturing space in Scotland, Mexico, China and the Netherlands alone. As business failures skyrocket in the weakening economy, you can look for more of this sort of thing to come out of bankruptcy courts - especially when the money that is up for grabs is so huge.

At week's end, WorldCom was set to join Enron, Global Crossing, Adelphia and Williams Communications as the latest multi-billion-dollar behemoth to enter Chapter 11 bankruptcy. And there will doubtless be many more.

As for Polaroid, expect to see stock in the company offered by One Equity Partners to investors all over again, via an initial public offering, as Wall Street's endless cycle, from IPO to Chapter 11 and back again, repeats itself once more. It's the way Wall Street really works, and it's why, from cradle to grave, the tricks of accounting lurk at every turn.

[risk1] 20/11/2013 13:10

I smell a bitter private investor

Keep up the good work HSG

[themoocha] 20/11/2013 12:55

Well said Chris.

EGM fast approaching.

Do I smell toast ?

Regards

TM

[risk1] 20/11/2013 11:41

chris

I bet they wish they could join HSG

Problem is they are bitter x shareholders who followed the herd and sold at a fat loss

atb

[ceebsy] 20/11/2013 09:51

Let me answer those accusations from a bitter and dissident HSG member 13matt13.

You can quote me on any of these.


"hsg10 have nothing illegal on hibu, simple that is why they cannot take any legal actions."

I think you will find that we have plenty of evidence to show that certain directors have acted outside of the law, this information is being assessed by a lawyer a QC and a forensic accountant


"The 10 have plotted their rise to the top by having control of a private website, control of aliases, allowing no debate on strtegy/policy,taking members money, & making secret decisions between the 10."

Plotted a rise to the top?, the top of what?, the Christmas tree?

Someone has to have control of a website, and anyone who is a hibu shareholder and can prove it is more that welcome to join our discussions. As for allowing no debate, I think 5800 posts and 19000 emails is plenty of debate don/t you?

Decisions have to be made, and we inform the group each time a decision is made. 99.5% of group members have no problem with this.

"That is why this group failed and will continue to so."

The first shareholder group in history that forced a FTSE listed PLC to an EGM without institutional support? yes sounds like we are failing big time.

"Carry on trying to tell shareholders that hsg are the only alternative on the bb`s. Desparate postings by the 10 on all bb`s, it is not the british way, you are trying to hard to convince!!!"

As I have said to you before, there is absolutely NOTHING stopping you from taking your own action against hibu should you wish.


"The game is up for the 10, I would be very worried if I were them, it will all come out in the media slowly how these 10 have worked their members"


What game is that then? fighting hard on behalf of every shareholder, none of us have anything to hide and the vast majority have voted for our resolutions.


"Low life."

Charming, just shows how bitter you are.

[fatfish] 20/11/2013 09:14

Matt.

The 10 have plotted their rise to the top by having control of a private website, control of aliases, allowing no debate on strtegy/policy,taking members money, & making secret decisions between the 10.

You clearly know nothing and couldn't be further from the truth
l

[13matt13] 20/11/2013 08:31

hsg10 have nothing illegal on hibu, simple that is why they cannot take any legal actions.

The 10 have plotted their rise to the top by having control of a private website, control of aliases, allowing no debate on strtegy/policy,taking members money, & making secret decisions between the 10.

That is why this group failed and will continue to so.

Carry on trying to tell shareholders that hsg are the only alternative on the bb`s. Desparate postings by the 10 on all bb`s, it is not the british way, you are trying to hard to convince!!!

The game is up for the 10, I would be very worried if I were them, it will all come out in the media slowly how these 10 have worked their members. Low life.

[fatfish] 19/11/2013 20:35

nice one risk, dont give tooooo much away. lol

[risk1] 19/11/2013 20:26

I am voting for existing management as they will protect me to the fullest extent possible and consult me ref the restructuring and do a deal with microsoft and as hibu is like a bank no financial worries and director holds shares in the company for the extra feel good factor

[themoocha] 19/11/2013 17:20

WHAT ?????

So you raise the questions, they answer them and you still lose your investment here. I fail to understand how you cannot see that.

The HSG 10 are proposing to get some value for shareholders and are trying to do this in a number of different ways, all of which I cannot possibly post on here. You will have read about Barry Dearing and his involvement with Cattles, he is coordinating us and has achieved the unthinkable. Matt give me one other instance where an EGM is being called by private investors, which has not needed II's. This is a first, and this is being done by HSG and the efforts of SOME of the HSG 10 and Barry Dearing. This is a unique position and is only a bit of what is going on behind the scene.

If you have not sold then join, you have a chance with HSG, without them, you like me and all other shareholders have been stuffed, big time.

TM

[dodd5y] 19/11/2013 17:14

Haha 13matt I bet this is really killing you guys. You would love to know what the hsg are working on and know but won't spill onto these forums. Your prying questions everyday are amusing. I am fairly new to all this but honestly can't understands and if someone has no financial interest in a company why spend all their time trying to change people's views or opinions? What does it really matter to you if someone else looses money??? Please explain

[13matt13] 19/11/2013 15:54

Moocher,

I can see what the 10 are doing for themselves that is very evident in the ONLY resolution to be put forward in the egm

BUT WHAT ARE THE HSG10 PROPOSING TO DO FOR THE SHAREHOLDERS??????

Why should or would anyone vote for them to get a nice director salary meanwhile shareholfers are shafted again & left with nothing.

I on the other hand would be concentrating on urging the ten hsg directors to drop this Resolution to become hibu Directors quickly as possible and maybe we will still get an EGM and a chance to raise those questions.

[risk1] 19/11/2013 11:30

HEAR HEAR TM

13matt has sold imo

[themoocha] 19/11/2013 11:22

John,

I cannot emphasise enough as to why you should join the HSG. I think I read that you have 800,000 shares and to join them would cost £80.00 to add to our legal fees. You will not know even 5% of what is going on at present. Some of the stuff that has come to light is staggering and unfortuntely it cannot be mentioned on here at this moment in time. Trust me though, when we win, and we will, the true story will come out. £80 is very little to gain access to the numerous actions being undertaken on our behalf.

All the pieces are coming together in the jigsaw, we have a few dud ones, which are soon to be jettisoned (if you understand what I mean).

Matt - the current BoD have done nothing for you as a shareholder. The HSG 10 are doing so much and are giving you the only hope of trying to recover something from this. From something that has been planned for a long period of time which has involved serious questionable actions. I do not see how you can conclude that the HSG 10 are in this for themselves, they have been forced to take this action because of what has systematically happended over the last 3 or 4 years.

TM

[john168] 19/11/2013 10:18

I love that:
HSG is working for themselves!
so Bob Wigley is working for himself.
10 Vs 1.
If I have money to spare I'll give to HSG for them to work for themselves.

[risk1] 19/11/2013 10:17

I look forward to the EGM

13matt I look back at your posts over the months and roar with laughter

that remains to be seen but good luck holders and good luck HSG!!!

[13matt13] 19/11/2013 09:18

Sure is very simple,

the hsg 10 have worked tirelessly for themselves I can see why the rewards for them were huge. Shareholders get nothing, wake up wake up very simple duped twice now.

GREED of the hsg10 has been their downfall, shameful 10 shafting its own members how low is that. The hsg 10 have certainly set a very dangerous precedent for all future shareholders trust in joining an action group.

The FCA needs to take a look at this group & its 10 and put in some legal apparatus for appeal against companies such as hibu & hsg.

"Waqas Chaudhry, a member of the Hibu Shareholders Group steering committee, said: "We fully understand that sometimes you win and sometimes you lose but, if this company is allowed to do this, it will set a very dangerous precedent in this country."

"The activists also aim to install their own directors, which Hibu claims would be pointless because its deal with creditors means the board have to act in their interests, not those of shareholders. "

[applelover] 19/11/2013 08:31

This Matt character sure is simple.