Hellenic Carr. Share Discussion Threads

[adrianrw] 12/2/2002 09:21

FT.com concensus recommendation for this share is 'strong buy' -why are we waiting?

[adrianrw] 09/2/2002 00:06

Thanks for the advice - I still think that there is a market to be stimulated

[chalky] 08/2/2002 11:07

This is a very illiquid share,needing
investors to buy and sell.It just does
not happen with the share.Go back and look
at volume and amount of trades-not very many.

[adrianrw] 08/2/2002 10:45

Cannot understand why these are not moving more. Good Christmas - against the trend and reasonable interim figures.

Does anybody have a view?

[mpg] 04/1/2002 23:10

Interims must be due very soon. Last two years they were during December.

[zapdos] 22/11/2001 21:08

I see that Unicorn Asset Management have just increased their stake, and I know that Eaglet have a decent stake.

Can anybody tell me the best site where I can check out who the other major shareholders are, and how much they hold ?

cheers

D.

[jasey3] 21/10/2001 06:17

CHECK OUT EINSTEIN TV , EPIC EIC , THIS BABYS FLYING

[zapdos] 17/9/2001 18:35

Was tempted to buy some more this morning, but put off by lack of trades and price movement. Wish I had now !

Be interesting to see where we go from here, bit more of a rise tomorrow perhaps if we get some decent newspaper coverage.

D.

[cwa1] 17/9/2001 14:22

S
I think they are fairly shrewd personally and appear to be well connected.Certainly today's announcement and subsequent 25% rise seem to say so.They were unmoved for most of the morning however :-)and there was a chance to get in early on.....

[strudwick] 17/9/2001 13:40

Eaglet only recently bought a large chunk of these. They are either extremely shrewd or lucky or something else.

[cwa1] 16/9/2001 11:29

This one is definitely in the frame to be taken over/out/private.Do not be short of this stock.Hope to see a nice rise on Monday!
Link to Sun. Tel. comment:-

[cockneyrebel] 28/8/2001 18:54

Shrewdies dive on Honeycombe

[cockneyrebel] 28/8/2001 18:54

Sorry - here's the link

[zapdos] 21/8/2001 19:02

HCL tipped in Mail on Sunday article 19/8.

Quote - 'Developers are already banking on Blackpool becoming Britains Las Vegas if gambling laws are relaxed - and pubs group Honeycombe Leisure would be a big winner'.

It goes on to say how the company owns several thriving outlets in the town, amongst the 70 they own in the North.

The paper also quotes that the company are currently making disposals to help clear their debts, although interest is covered twice by earnings anyway.Business is highly cash generative, NAV of 63.5p a share. Forecast profits of 3 million for the year to next April, with earnings per share of 9.1p. P/E now around 7.

Mail summarises by saying 'has attractions as a speculative buy' .

Any views ?

[john333] 02/6/2000 11:39

AH WELL GUESS ITS ADVFN SUBCRIBERS LOSS.........SEE MY PERSONAL TO YOU

[belsizepark] 01/6/2000 20:38

I am quite sure I will be leaving this board. I have penned in Sunday as my last post. I doubt very much anything will change to make me stay. I am sure that you John and Steve have appreciated my posts and I thank you for that, but I seem to be fighting a battle that I cant win. My posting may be appreciated elsewhere.

regds

belsizepark

[john333] 01/6/2000 17:27

Stockport is the place Stevie any time you wish to email by all means do so

Regards

John

[steviegeary] 01/6/2000 10:50

bp

same here......If you're leaving may the force go with you and multiply all your profits.....have enjoyed reading your contributions, as I have yours John.

John

I hope you don't mind but I've also made a note of your E-mail as in the near future I'd like to talk to you. I live in Stoke, I understand from your previous postings that you're probably not too far away from here. Anyway like I said, I hope you don't mind.

regards to all......Steve

[john333] 01/6/2000 09:20

BP

Sorry you will be leaving us, but why I know not, this is a free BB so you can always pop in from time to time.

If you find something more suitable let me know on [e-mail]

Meanwhile I wish you every success

John

[belsizepark] 31/5/2000 19:35

good luck to your son. I hope he does well it may be a great investment. You know it better than me and I have bought (and own) what on the face of it look expensive shares but a belief in the quality of mannagement is one very important decision.

As a general rule good or bad I do not discuss my week. Im certainly pleased for you though.

Im pretty sure by the end of the week I will not be writing here any more. So I wont be able to give you much more of my advice. shame really. i do enjoy discussing shares with total strangers!!

regards Belsizepark

[john333] 31/5/2000 19:31

BP

Thanks for you detailed response...........There is so much information which you imparted for any investor to consider when purchasing any share let alone this particular one, and I will certainly refer your answer to anyone wishing to further their knowledge when considering whether to invest in a particular company.

I did say at the outset I had no axe to grind on behalf of this company and as you rightly stated i do have the advantage of having met the company, but not their brokers. Even allowing for caution in the forecast Estimates, I am still convinced of the bona fides of the policy the company have adopted in growing their business, and which is, incidently, in an area I am familiar with i.e. within two hours travel of their base in Preston.

As you know I am a short term trader, and therefore this particular company does not have sufficient volatility for me to trade in it. However my son has indeed taken a stake, so we'll see what happens over the next twelve months or more.

Will be interesting to see how it compares with your Regal Hotels

By the way my week to date has been extremely profitable.........hows yours

Regards

John

[belsizepark] 31/5/2000 19:00

yes John I can do better but it is not necessarily self explanatory that opening pubs is what they needed the money for. They could have decided to try and add the pubs by debt finance as opposed to equity finance.

Regarding the fundamentals, I presume they come from the companys own broker. Now it is usually the case that a companies own broker is bullish trhe company because they want to keep the account on the one hand and on the other hand as a market maker they are often long the stock or still have good relationships with their own custometrs who they sold stock on to. The list of reasons is endless for a bullish story but not much for a bearish story.

The fundamentals that you show tell a story of a rapidly growing company but I am wary of the data. I accept the actual results of 1998 and 1999 as read but for 2000 and 2001 it is clearly estimates and the question comes to where these estimates come from, the assumptions behind them etc. The best thing to do clearly if you are intending getting ling the stock is speak to the company by attending one of its presentations as you did and speaking to its brokers. You seem to have done both and me neither so I am speaking from a disadvantaged position.

The estimates assume a phenomenal rate of growth i.e a near doubling of pre tax profits from 1.65mm to 3.00mm in the 2 years from 1999 to 2001. (I could forecast a similar sort of result with my equity portfolio growth in yearly profits but it is just a forecast and the chances of me getting that sort of growth is really quite slim).

if you are impressed with their ability to deliver then that will be the key factor in you determing wether to invest. based on the limited info you have given me these are some of the questions i would want to know the answers to.

1. "they look for a 20% return on freehold sites and 30% on leasehold". Quite frankly who is going to sell them stuff on those sort of yields. If i owned a freehold pub that generated say £50,000 net profit a year, I wouldnt sell my pub for £250,000. quite frankly i would keep it myself. Similarly with a leasehold interest. so who are going to sell them these attractive pubs and why?

2. They believe they can pick the cherries. Look at it from the otherside. If I was a pub operator looking to dispose of pubs the cherries I would like to sell are the rotten ones not the juicy ones.

3. If the company claims that the pubs they are looking to buy are currently badly managed and consequently they aim to improve sales after purchasing them to get them up to those heady return levels, then I would want to know by how much percentage change has there to be in any given pubs sales and profits for that return to be obtained. How are those additional revenues going to be obtained and does the increase in percentage stack up as likely to be achievable.

4. on their current pubs what increase in turnover and profits did they achieve in taking them over?

5. Do they have the expertise to be able to purchase pubs that quickly and refurbish them if necessary.

6.What is the specific experience of the management team in running an expanding pub operation.


The list of questions would go on and on. In fact the more info I obtained the more questions I would ask. I happen to love this stuff!

After determining if I could accept their rate of growth in profits etc, i would then have to see if the price was right.

I would compare to other pub operators and take the view that the price/earnings ratio was very high for the sector. Indeed even if the forecasts are accurate the 2001 forward price earnings ratio is higher than say scottish and newcastles is forecast for ths year. well its a smaller growing company you may add and should grow faster. But it is riskier i say. all these things need to be considered. I havent done any further research bar this. if I do ill let you know. It may be a great company. you are in the best position to tell. But did you ask the right questions??

All the best belsizepark

[john333] 31/5/2000 13:11

BP

Course this isn't for you as 000's of other shares arent, otherwise you would just buy the All Share Index

As for raising cash.........would have thought this self explanatory if the they are looking to add a pub every 4 - 6 weeks to their stock.

Come on my friend you can do better than that sort of reply.

As you like the fundamentals let me know what the undermentioned signifies, as you know I am not into this sort of in depth study.

Year End Pre Tax Profit EPS PER CEPS PCE Net Div Net Yield
Apr (£m) (P) (P) (P) (%)
1998A 1.13 6.4 17.8 9.3 12.3 - -
1999A 1.65 6.8 16.8 8.6 13.3 1.8 1.6
2000E 2.25 7.6 15.O 10.2 11.2 2.5 2.2
2001E 3.00 10.1 11.3 12,5 9.1 3.0 2.6

LOTS OF OTHER FACTS FROM THE COMPANY'S BROKERS IF YOU REQUIRE SAME - SEE ORIGINAL POST

John

[belsizepark] 30/5/2000 22:35

John on the face of things this doesnt look like it is for me. trading expensive to other brewers. Do you know what they were raising cash for at the recent placing?

any more info that you have?

regards

belsizepark