Eurovestech Share Discussion Threads

[praipus] 15/9/2012 13:36

Billiant thanks AO.

[a0148009] 14/9/2012 19:01

Its all here I calculate 15.78p after distribution of 1.32p

The Return of Cash represents 1.32p per share. Following the return of cash of
2.18p per share in April 2010 and the return of cash of 4p per share in October
2011, the proposed Return of Cash of 1.32p per share means that the total
returns of capital to Shareholders amounts to 7.5p per share. In addition, the
Company completed an on-market share buy-back programme amounting to GBP2.5
million in the period from March to June 2010. The Directors have estimated
that the unaudited net assets per share at 30 June 2012 was 17.1p. Accordingly,
if the amount previously returned to Shareholders of 6.18p per share had not
been returned to Shareholders and had been retained as cash, the unaudited net
asset value per share at 30 June 2012 would have been 23.3p per share. This
compares to a net asset value of 5p per share when the Company was listed on
the AIM market in March 2000.

47.5% discount to NAV based on share price 7.5p

Would be silly to sell at this level- existing and new shareholders will looking
for further distributions over time.

AO

[praipus] 14/9/2012 12:34

Damille DIL2 fund buying or is this just the result of the tender?


I'm racking Damille's holdings on the WAM thread


Cany anyone tell me the NAV here now without the tender cash?

[vraic] 10/9/2012 13:34

2 HUGE TRADES 14 MILLION EACH WHO SOLD ??? WHO BOUGHT???

[typo56] 10/9/2012 09:38

It's ex return of cash today. Ex dates for capital reorganisations are often Mondays.

[vraic] 10/9/2012 08:09

investors chronicle page 69 shows EVT WILL BE EX DIVIDEND 12 SEPT 1.32 PENCE.

[kenmitch] 03/9/2012 17:09

My understanding was the same as Simon Thompson when he covered EVT on 11th May and wrote this:-

"By the end of June EVT will either receive £12.2 million of cash for its holding of loan notes in online market researcher Toluna, or its stake in Toluna will rise from 10% to 16%. Either way it is a win win for shareholders. If the loan notes are redeemed for cash, then Eurovestech's own cash pile will equate to half its current share price of 9.25p."

So the fact that they opted to increase their Toluna stake at a time when they must also have been debating whether to stay on AIM strongly hints that they have no intention of running down their investments.

Not too long before the results when this will probably be made clear one way or the other. But meanwhile any who bought a lot based on their conviction that EVT will run down their investments and so provide us with loads of cash short term, probably need to rethink. But there is time to sell or buy more after the results before the AIM quote goes.

Hope that answers your question.

[horndean eagle] 03/9/2012 16:45

Ken,

What makes you think that EVT had the option of receiving cash from the last set of Toluna loan notes?

[kenmitch] 03/9/2012 08:48

Simon Thompson's advice is to hold and wait for further cash distributions as and when Eurovestech's investments are sold.

Maybe he too thinks that EVT are running down their investments, but I'm not so sure. They didn't suggest that when explaining why they were leaving AIM.

If they were going to do that then would they have accepted cash for the Toluna loan notes, rather than use that as a chance to increase their stake in Toluna?

So though EVT themselves promised more disposal news both short and medium term, I'm not convinced there will be that much more cash returned over the next couple of years. But as ST suggests with the shares so far below NAV and with liquid cash assets around £9 million, it could be well worth holding the shares as a very low risk (almost no risk) long term lockaway.

[etarip] 31/8/2012 15:25

Investors Chronicle
Page 14
Simon Thompson comments on Eurovestech in detail.
Worth a read

[kenmitch] 30/8/2012 12:07

vraic

It's not just the £150,000. They gave other reasons linked to AIM requirements too.

Also no matter how good the news the share price has not responded and has just drifted lower. It must have been as frustrating for EVT and their large shareholders as for the rest of us. NAV is a conservative 16p or so.

I would much rather the shares had stayed on AIM but the temptation to hang on is partly because of the likelihood of further realisations and cash returns "both short and medium term."

Results next month could help with decision making.

[vraic] 30/8/2012 07:30

sbs As you say plenty of volume, who has bought all the shares not seen
any news of the big holders increasing their holding,
Amvescap is Invesco 30.97% SVM 20.6% R Bernstein 9.5%
delisting from aim to save £150,000 when the market cap is £25million
is wrong . see there was news on one of the investments.

[sbs] 22/8/2012 15:43

Volume averaging a million a day this week - not so bad ;-)

[sbs] 22/8/2012 10:14

Being private also reduces the accountability of the board. This is a significant factor in smaller companies.

[kenmitch] 21/8/2012 20:10

I think this buyback discussion will prove irrelevant as I can't see EVT going for them again after what happened last time. Even if I'm wrong and they do, it will probably be very low key and a large buyback is very unlikely.

EVT have an excellent record of finding and nurturing successful smaller companies and the money is better spent on them. Also from time to time EVT have invested successfully in quoted Companies like Arc International and more recently Net Dimensions, where the value of their stake has roughly doubled. Compare that investment with the £2 million plus they spent on buybacks that was followed by an even lower share price.

So many are so convinced by the theory of buybacks that they ignore this sort of evidence. But EVT are shrewd and I doubt that they will make that mistake. Time will tell on that one and we might learn more with the results next month.

So far EVT have not said that they are winding down their investments and it could well be that things won't change much other than the shares no longer being quoted and so much harder to trade.

[sbs] 21/8/2012 08:40

The previous buy backs were not engineered to raise the price. They mopped up some sellers, and increased assets per share.

If the spare capital the company is generating were aggressively applied to buying shares, the price could be pushed up quite easily over time, each buyback increasing assets per share.

The cash return has had no positive impact on the price, and no fundamental reason to benefit remaining shareholders either.

[jambo172] 20/8/2012 15:48

Kenmitch

A large buyback would not surprise me.
Buying shares not and cancelling gives a 100% uplift on cost (bouble your money).
That to me looks like a very good investment.
Unfortunately there does not appear to be many sellers at these levels.

[kenmitch] 19/8/2012 18:33

sbs.

The chances of getting back 16p are remote, and 32p impossible! If there really was a chance of such returns the share price would have soared and not fallen even further on the news that EVT were cancelling the listing on AIM. EVT haven't said yet (unless I've missed it) what they are going to do with all their current investments. There is no certainty that they will sell their stakes or indeed be able to.

They have confirmed that some further asset sales are likely both near and medium term so some further return of cash is likely after the AIM quote has gone. BUT other than that if we choose to hold on to our shares it could be that we are lumbered with a dead investment for a long time.

Are you expecting EVT to use their cash on a massive share buyback? That too imo is very unlikely.

[sbs] 17/8/2012 19:15

Yes - maybe.

If they give out 16p in cash, that is what the shares will have been worth. If they continue to buy out shares, then maybe the eventual payout will be 32p/share for those that stay in.

Of course, if they just take all the money in bonuses, or give it all away to their charities, then there won't be anything for the minorities. This is one reason to stay on AIM, which I'll probably be voting for.

[kenmitch] 17/8/2012 17:34

sbs.

I don't think EVT bonus payments are based on eps. They went for buybacks because they thought the same as you've just posted, but unlike you so far, they came to the conclusion that the theory didn't work in practice and certainly didn't in their case. Hence further buybacks were quietly dropped.

Indeed in any sensible world your shares should be worth more following buybacks and even worth twice as much as you point out. But some shares stay far too cheap and get even cheaper and others that are already overpriced go even higher. Often news flow, profit gains or losses change that, but not always, and sometimes not for years. Buybacks are often irrelevant. They are useful in enabling investors to sell without trashing the share price.

Presumably you bought today because you think the shares are too cheap and value will out in the end? But if it didn't when EVT were quoted on AIM I can't see it being better on a matched bargain basis. Or am I missing something?

[sbs] 17/8/2012 17:02

It's hard to predict when any individual company will revert nearer to its NAV, but with a combination of such companies, I expect that, from time to time, some will be doing well in the market. Particularly if they are actively converting their assets to cash, and returning that cash to shareholders.

I'd prefer the company to stay on AIM, but I don't need all my money in cash so even taking it off would be OK for me.

I don't begrudge directors getting bonuses based on EPS, if that is the case here, and getting bigger bonuses with higher EPS. If they double EPS and NAV/share, then in any sensible world, my shares are worth twice as much. If the shares are still the same price in the market, or even fall in price, then logically that should be a time to buy, transferring money from less value-additive companies.

They are, in effect, transferring money from people who require liquidity to those that don't. And that suits me for now.

[kenmitch] 17/8/2012 16:45

Not a lot of point having another buyback debate as I doubt that EVT will do it again having learnt from the experience. But YES they do enhance NAV. Unfortunately very often that fails to do anything for the share price. The Eurovestech share price fell further after their buybacks and never recovered. This is often what happens.With buybacks people and commentators tend not to look beyond what SHOULD happen instead of what does happen. Buybacks used to be illegal and I wish they still were though Director bonus payments based on increased esp show why so many Companies like them. Yes, buybacks mean increased eps but again that often is not then reflected in a rise in the share price.

Interesting to see that you've bought today sbs. Any chance of you explaining the thinking behind that?

[sbs] 17/8/2012 16:10

500k traded today, included 100k buy from me... Hardly a shortage of liquidity, even at these low prices (or maybe especially at these low prices).

[sbs] 17/8/2012 16:06

I agree about buybacks - but not about liquidity. Liquidity could be a lot worse, particularly for a small investor like me.

[jambo172] 17/8/2012 10:22

Kenmitch - you aare right. Fat finger.
Slightly disagree re buybacks.
Buybacks at 50% discount very asset enhancing.
Especially as there is intention to realise all investments and return capital.
Cannot see liquidity being any worse than it is curently.