Eurovestech Share Discussion Threads

[sbs] 19/12/2011 20:12

It's probably down to personality. They looked at (but rejected) investing in my company a few years back. Very intelligent people, but they weren't prepared to invest for a potential payoff which was years away. Since then, their shares are down by half, ours up by 5 times. At the time, their attitude was verging on arrogance, but was more polite and they had clearly articulated objectives. I can see how this might annoy some institutions though!

Perhaps they are now getting too comfortable to take such big risks. Either way, they could easily push the price up a long way by buying, but instead are aiming at maximising NAV/share with these token purchases.

[ozz2] 19/12/2011 14:43

kenmitch--sorry to hear about the warrants, but I am pretty sure you will make amends when things settle.
Good old Mike, at least he did have a few blues you could have made money on.
But he is probably right to go for strength of the company the way things are shaping up.

You are right about the 4p I didn't make much profit at all, I still have my eye on it and one never knows I might get back in when things are clearer.
The price at a discount so large as this,to me is the worrying factor-WHY is it at such a variance? I know it as always struggled to get the attention of the Inst's but no one from EVT as tried to explain it.

But thanks for your time and it's been nice talking to you again, a happy Christmas to you and yours.

[kenmitch] 16/12/2011 19:18

Ozz2.

I'm reluctant to ditch EVT shares despite those buybacks. Your sale at 15p was ahead of the cash return. From memory that was 4p a shares bringing your sale price down to 11p.

Fact is NAV is around 17p compared with a share price a bit over 9p. That's far too cheap, and ignores the huge promise of a couple of their investments as well as their continuing stake in Toluna.

My guess is that one or more Institutional investors are pestering EVT to buy back for reasons I can't fathom (other than the theoretical case for buybacks that have been proved many times including with EVT not to work in practice). If that is the case it is very hard for any Company to say no. Anyway so far the sums involved in the new buybacks are small and as long as they remain modest they will still have plenty of cash for new investments and for further investment in existing holdings.

I just feel that eventually the shares will trade at a good bit higher price, both from increasing NAV and from a narrowing of that huge discount to NAV. And there is always the chance of more good news - or even better - from one or more of their investee companies.

As for Mike Walters site,it is very different these days with far more emphasis on quality companies and investments and far less on ENRT and similar blue sky. But there are still quite a few only interested in ENRT and Eden, and yes, farmboy is still predicting imminent good news just as he was 10 years ago!!! I don't follow ENRT and just hold £500 worth bought at 1.75p as a punt. It is warrants that have gone wrong this year on the site - my second worst year.

Anyway going back to EVT. The shares are far too cheap imo and on reflection it would be silly selling out in a paddy just because I hate buybacks.

[kenmitch] 15/12/2011 16:20

Yes. I'm really disappointed too. If they haven't learnt from the last buybacks that they are a waste of money they never will. I've held the shares (apart from a brief spell in 2008) for many years,and spent too many hours posting about them, but any more buybacks and I'll be selling. I made my views very plain to EVT and sent them loads of information and links to back it up, ahead of the last buybacks. No doubt their Institutional investors told them my views - in the unlikely event they were told -were rubbish. But now they have the evidence from carrying them out, and seeing the share price go lower as so often happens.

Alliance Trust have been pestered to buy back and reluctantly did so only for the discount those buybacks in theory would narrow widen further.

Spend £2 million on a brilliant multi bagging investment - e.g Toluna? Or spend £2 million on buybacks? It is obvious what the investment in Toluna achieved. The buyback will at best enable sellers who want out to do so without trashing the share price.It will do nothing AGAIN for we ordinary shareholders. As GriffMG says buybacks show a lack of imaagination, and if they really can't find undervalued investments like they used to then sadly it is time to move on.

[griffmg] 15/12/2011 08:03

Grrr buy backs, I thought RB had a little more imagination - they will be announcing a rebranding next.

B-(

[ozz2] 19/10/2011 10:29

I'm afraid it was confusing me: sold out at 15.5p.
I think I will stick to murder mysteries.

[kenmitch] 27/9/2011 16:18

Excellent results and great news about the 4p cash return with no mention of a buyback this time. Very pleased.

Also it is easy to forget that EVT still has a very useful stake in Toluna - what a brilliant investment that was!

Magenta continues to promise more than it seems to deliver but otherwise progress, especially with their newer investments, looks good. It would be good if they could sell KSS Fuels for a good price - and then there might even be a further return of cash.

NAV now up to 19.8p so the shares are trading at a too large discount imo. But the share price has been too low for ages.

Fact is though anyone who bought at the original 5p will soon have received all of their investment back in cash returns plus an extra penny. EVT has way outperformed most similar companies. Puts the more recent disappointing share price performance in perspective.

[solarno lopez] 27/9/2011 07:28

A handsome payout announced today thanks EURO

[kenmitch] 23/9/2011 17:23

Intriguing sbs. Are you able to post more? Presumably you would rather not?

Separately, it seems a to be a long time waiting for further news re return of cash and good news in general. Meanwhile at least the depressed share price is mostly ignoring the big falls elsewhere.

[sbs] 21/9/2011 20:48

I think they didn't want to take the risk then. We have a lot more cash now and sales are up a multiple :-)

[kenmitch] 21/9/2011 20:24

Interesting sbs - would be interested to hear/read a bit more.

[sbs] 21/9/2011 17:46

kenmitch - you have a point there. They could have invested in my company and made several times their investment!

[kenmitch] 21/9/2011 17:44

sbs.

Yes, as I've posted before one of the few plus points of buybacks is that they enable sellers to get out without trashing the share price.

But a Company without ideas is not worth investing in anyway! I invest in Companies with ideas and where money is spent wisely. i.e EVT for a very long time until they too caught the buyback bug, since when their shares have done nothing. Why get out of, or want to get out of Companies with ideas?

Which is better? Investing £2 million in another Toluna or KSS, or spending it on buybacks? Look at the FACTS instead of the theory and the answer is staring you in the face!

[sbs] 01/9/2011 19:46

kenmitch - you haven't demonstrated causality.

Perhaps companies which embark on buy backs tend to be those who have run out of ideas, and that is why their share prices fall after the buyback. Lots of companies fall without buybacks, often precipitously. A company without ideas and not returning cash would fall a lot further as there would be no one to take up the supply from the disenchanted owners. In these markets, some shareholders will be forced sellers, so the shares could be decimated without buy backs.

If buy backs continue at below NAV for long enough, then the assets per share will rise indefinitely. Maybe companies which claim to do this have been exaggerating their NAV, so have been diluting the remaining shares, leading to lower prices. I'd like to see a significant discount to ensure this does not happen.

PS BP Has its own problems - including a loss of NAV of maybe $30Bn from Deepwater Horizon. So it seems they were overpaying for their buyback, which obviously is not what I am proposing here.

[jambo172] 01/9/2011 16:43

Usually Setember for the results.
Probably get an idea at that time.
Hopefully a cash return and increase buy back.

[dd776] 22/8/2011 07:46

when are we going to get notice of the return of cash. 2 months since last company news

[kenmitch] 17/8/2011 20:02

sbs. Interesting post, but you've ignored the key question. How is it better to get no cash than cash? The answer is it is never better. Just imagine if every one of our dividend paying shares paid no dividend and instead spent that money on buybacks. Our dividend yields would go from maybe up to 10% or more for long term holdings to ZERO!

You are clearly clued up on the theoretical case for buybacks. Trouble is evidence (e.g detailed research from Morgan Stanley) shows clearly how Companies buying back saw their share prices go on to UNDERPERFORM those in the sector that did not buy back.

Yes, it obviously makes sense to buyback at a low price - but even then it is a pointless exercise and you don't have to look beyond EVT to see that. What did their last buyback achieve other than a lower share price?

OK. Yes it means assets per share increase but that doesn't automatically mean a higher share price as EVT investors have learnt the hard way. I've known Companies (e.g Unitech Corporate Parks, admittedly with much less proven assets than EVT) trade at a 90% discount to NAV.

You say that a lack of a buyback could lead to a sharp fall in the share price. Why, when the shares are already trading well below modestly calculated NAV? The shares have had a very bad run since they bought back even when the markets have risen. This was to be expected as anyone who has bothered to check out research on buybacks (instead of taking the dodgy theory about them as being good as read) will know.

Obviously I can't prove this but fwiw I'm confident that the EVT share price would be higher now than it is if they hadn't wasted money on the last buyback. And there is a high chance (read research on it) that if they have another one that after a short bounce at the time of the buyback the share price will then go lower again. EVENTUALLY EVT and their investors so keen on them might cotton on. But don't hold your breath as BP who have now spent around £30 billion on buybacks (enough to fund the Olympics around 3 times!) only to see their shares languishing STILL haven't got the message!

Sorry to state this so bluntly, but buying back is the same as throwing money away or burning it.

[jambo172] 17/8/2011 13:00

A share tender would be the best of both world.
Those who want to sell can and thoses who don't don't.
If if was done on a say 5% discount then the asset value per share would go up as well.
Simples !

[sbs] 17/8/2011 09:13

The trick is to make the buy back at a low price. Then assets per share increase, so remaining shareholders have more valuable shares.

You also don't know how low the share price would have gone if they hadn't mopped up the spare shares. Some people are looking for cash in these markets, so the lack of a buy back could lead to a sharp fall in the price.

[kenmitch] 16/8/2011 08:24

Interesting that whenever a supporter of buybacks is asked the basic question - how do you do better getting no cash from a buyback than getting cash from a dividend there is no response.

Recently The Sunday Times said the Rio Tinto buyback was "progressing well." Again what does that mean? The Sunday Times when asked responded to other questions but twice ignored that one. Why? Because it is meaningless... other than a statement of the obvious that they are continuing to buyback shares.

I wonder if EVT Management will be pressured by their Institutional holders to go for a buyback, as one of the very few plus points for buybacks with smaller companies especially, is that they do enable sellers to do so without trashing the share price.

[griffmg] 13/8/2011 09:18

I'm with Ken

Last time they structured enough of it to mean shareholders in a position to could largely avoid tax up to their CGT limit by issuing a tranch of 'special' shares that were immediately sold and the funds sent to holders.

That worked very well for me.

I'm holding a small chunk of HOME, they have spent millions (100 mill I think) on a buyback - only to see the share price drop each time they bought some more - what a waste.

Gimme the cash, if I HAVE to pay some tax, so be it.

[kenmitch] 12/8/2011 20:05

sbs.

So you would prefer a buyback. But what do you get from a buyback? I don't get anything so please explain what I'm missing.

With a dividend I get cash. With a buyback I get nothing - and going by the last buyback it doesn't do anything for the share price either.

So you get cash from a dividend but have to pay tax on it and don't like it.So you would rather get nothing to avoid paying tax.

I fail to see any logic in that thinking. Again please explain especially how you are better off with no cash rather than some cash.

[ozz2] 12/8/2011 15:04

dd776, thanks for that, I am looking to buy more.

[dd776] 12/8/2011 07:45

will these still qualify for any payments from the 23/06/2011 announcement? not declared yet so would expect to be at date when we are told details.