Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Eur.Conv.Dev LSE:ECDC London Ordinary Share GB00B1BJRB27 ORD EUR0.80
  Price Change % Change Share Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  0.00 0.0% 0.07 0.00 00:00:00
Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price
0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Real Estate Investment & Services -1.17 -1.31 6
Last Trade Time Trade Type Trade Size Trade Price Currency
- O 0 0.07 EUR

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Date Time Title Posts
21/11/201620:14ECDC Real estate Bulgaria/Romania discount 90% on NAV 50% on cash220

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greedfear: No real surprises in final results, but: DELISTING ???!!! I really hate delistings. Must say, I'm surprised the share price is where it is. I've been in delisting scenarios before and it has always been a total fiasco for the share price. Maybe this time it will be different....
greedfear: Guess people are getting interested because of the large gap between nav and share price, while there are signs of share holder activism. I'm trying to get as much support as I can and have taken a new step for that. Further support from readers of this BB would be appreciated.
smithie6: yep nice to see the rise today and over last 2 months but only needs a few buys or some news release and the share price could really move imo like the mkt being told that Laisi occupancy has gone from around 70% to over 90% or that Cascade is now producing cash each amount which is significant wrt the mkt cap. of ECDC ---- I think you're hoping for a sale of Cascade maybe also worth considering whether better to just hold it... and if can make loans to be interest only then the cash surplus could be paid out as a divi...(if we get dirs. etc to minimise costs)....or spit Cascade out via a bonus issue to be a separate unlisted company (Like Creston did back in 2000 with Ind. Commerc. Holdings) and it pays us a divi.....and in 20 years time the building value should be much higher...and 20 years of divis would also add up.... and perhaps divi increasing 3% each year as increase office rental prices and possible benefit from Rumania/Bulgaria finally 'converging' with EUrope for wages etc...original plan of ECDC or pay down the Cascade loans by 1/2ME or something every year....and then after X years we own 40% of building value and in X years lets say its 100M due to inflation etc....then ECDC part is 40ME with no debt...and share price would be the same... a) or b) might be better than a one off gain due to selling the bld ..
greedfear: Smithie- Some information will not be given when asked as ECDC thinks that would have to be shared with all shareholders. Like you I think the risk/reward ratio is excellent. Although I currently hate the lack of transparency I must admit that it's also a cause of the share price being where it is, so I guess I should not complain too much. However, I feel it's an absolute necessity in order to close the gap between share price and net asset value to provide (potential) shareholders with better information. For instance, it's impossible to calculate what ECDC will get if Cascade was to be sold for 50.1 million €. I've tried to but could not figure out how to get to proceeds of 15.8 million € as mentioned in the annual report 2012. I did ask ECDC for details but did not get them (as they would have to share that information with other shareholders too). I'll try to avoid getting into a discussion about the existence of the NEF 3 (IOM 2) loan. I think it's still there, you think it's not. Fine with me. Regarding the costs in the NEF 3 (IOM 2) accounts: if you take a look at 2012 it shows revenues of 539,000 and a profit of 349,000. The difference between revenues and profits are the costs i.c. 190,000. Those costs are rather high for a company that has one asset (a loan to Cascade) and no further activities. Regarding the 55% share in NEF 3 (IOM 2). Somehow ECDC has got 55% of the voting rights but only a beneficial interest of 15%. 15% would make sense as initially NEF 3 (IOM 2) had assets of 2 million € (coming from ECDC for an amount of 0.3 million € and Shedlin 1.7 million €) That the benificial interest is only 15% gets confirmed by the valuation of ECDC's participation in NEF 3 (IOM 2). Valued at 1-1-2012 at 357,000 and per 31-12-2012 at 409,000, an increase of 52,000 (being 15% of the profits of NEF 3 (IOM 2) ad 190,000). It's true ECDC will be entitled to a 20% compounded interest rate on the 4.5 million € loan. However, that can only be paid if there's money left when Cascade is sold and bank loans and NEF 3 (IOM 2) loan has been paid back. Then there's an another point that's not quite clear. When ECDC initially loaned out 4 million € to Cascade, their joint venture partner loaned 1.6 million to Cascade. It would make sense to assume that they too would be entitled to 20% interest. Indeed the 60% joint venture partner would welcome a sale of Cascade as soon as possible as the proceeds they are entitled to gets eaten up by the ECDC loan (don't mind that ) [and the NEF 3 (IOM 2) loan].
smithie6: ....maybe some shareholders voted no to share buy back...since perhaps they saw it as immoral and perhaps like tricking an old retired lady to sell her shares for peanuts when on a risk/reward basis they were worth much more.... and as a vote of no confidence in the bod (which would also have my vote....I'm not a fan of Charlemagne nor of James Mellon, owner of 20% of Charlemagne, ...dubious or immoral corporate actions imo at MFX where he is an exec...and questionable conduct at Rivingtonstreet Holdings (non-exec. chairman)...50% dilution with him being able to buy shares at 4p via convertible loans, use of convertible loans which convert at a low share price by directors to shaft their shareholders, a forthcoming financial news scandal imo, might take 1 or 2 years before it explodes in the press) but hey, financial sector people are not famous for winning awards for scruples !
smithie6: someone just bt. 300-350k worth of shares... so I assume they had a trained accountant pore through the accounts and subsidiary accounts...and they were happy.... and we havent looked at the subsidiary accounts....whereas they will have ..and they then bought... so, imo I see their purchase at 5.3p as underpinning the share price ---- and I agree with you that the cash in Silven is not in ECDC accounts, since accounted for via equity accounting..... so cash 'owned' by ECDC is similar to the share price imo while it is possible that one of the investments will end up being worth much, imo the risk/reward is quite good. (a lot of the mall investments are not worth much or anything...but hopefully cascade is...and Sliven has 1M of land) One could have invested in Rumania/Bulgaria in 2006/7 in the stampede and paid high prices....or now and pay very low prices. Much better risk/reward to do so now imo.
horndean eagle: greedfear what ideas do you have for narrowing the gap between share price and nav?
greedfear: I'm starting to feel like a lone ranger here although there must some people reading this BB. Now Charlemagne does not longer have control over ECDC through their share holding it might be the perfect time to change thoughts about ECDC between us small share holders. Because of the change of ownership there is no longer a line between C. as shareholder and C. as director of ECDC. In other words factually only non C. related shareholders are in control. Surely some of you must be interested in or having ideas about how to close the gap between net asset value and share price. If you are please e-mail me at
greedfear: So now we know for sure who has sold. More interesting is the answer to the question who has bought? As you may or may not recall there was a (group of) shareholder(s) that voted NO to all resolutions at the latest AGM indeed causing all resolutions not to pass. I'm speculating a 100% here but I do think it possible those were shareholders from the start (having paid 80p or 95p or so). They sure as hell could not have been happy puppies and may have been a little bit p#ssed (pardon my French) that despite the disastrous performance of ECDC share price C. still got paid running it. C. allready felt the increasing pressure from these investors (as proved by the no votes). Well, in short, I think that what we're looking at is some kind of deal/arrangement that has been made between C and those early day investors that became more and more active. Just my two pennies and if so I think we're going to see these active investors shaking up ECDC (forcing ECDC to stop supporting Plovdiv, dividing the assets of Sliven (land and cash) between partners (one of them being C), marketing Cascade etc.etc.) If my story proves to be utter BS, well I've got others ! lol
greedfear: Merry Christmas and Happy New Year ECDC shareholders ! I believe next year will be a prosperous year too. Once other investors find out the Bucharest office market shows improvement and realise Cascaded Euro Tower could very well be sold in 2014 (instant double-triple share price). The Cascade loan is being paid back (approx. 2 million each year) from Cascade Park Plaza's cash flow and as ECDC holds 40% that on itself will add 0.8 million to the value of this equity investment.
Eur.Conv.Dev share price data is direct from the London Stock Exchange
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