Cloudified Share Discussion Threads

[bdog51] 08/4/2019 07:27

The Company's solicitors Clifford Chance are currently reviewing the Annulment Committee's decision and the Company will provide an update on this review within the next 7 days.The Company has requested the cessation of trading of its shares on the NEX Exchange (which are currently in suspension), which will become effective as of market close on 9 April 2019.

[andy] 07/4/2019 19:26

jack,


I think there's a lot of that going on around the world, even in our own country, sadly.


Not excusing it of course, just commenting how life seems to be going.

[jack1236] 07/4/2019 15:24

The case has actually set a shocking precedent; that State employees can be 'comfortable' in the knowledge that if they 'transgress', then there is no 'comeback'. That is a 'future' defence for all State employees.

[jnbrw] 07/4/2019 15:03

Not sure cc, DQ, pala et al are ready to roll over and die just yet. What happened here is blatant theft wrapped up in lots of layers of nonsense which shifted and changed over the years until it was sanctioned and legitimised by icsid!

[nico115] 06/4/2019 19:00

They nicked a mine we owned Just don't get how they keep it Makes no sense Hey ho Another tax loss : (

[neo26] 06/4/2019 16:54

AndyRoi do not really care about 10m, they managed to get hold of asset worth billions for a very small amount.Its the lies of these overlapping of licenses which are scandalous...

[andy] 06/4/2019 10:55

Neo,


Agreed, they possibly didn't consider that, or it could be they are happy for CHL to go into administration, as that will make financing a further legal battle much harder to achieve.


I think PALA are probably the lender of last resort now, unless CC are prepared to take it on on a no win no fee basis, and I would doubt that.

[neo26] 04/4/2019 22:57

I think they didnt expect chl to go into admin, these last 10 years foreign investors have not been willing to invest in indonesia.Its cost them thats for sure.I think everyone knows they stole this asset from chl.Absolutely criminal...

[andy] 04/4/2019 20:56

That just beggars belief, what planet are they on?


"explained that learning from the experience of the Churcill Mining lawsuit against Indonesia, there was an effort that the Annulment of the Awards petition against the ICSID verdict was one of the tricks to avoid the obligation to pay court fees ordered in the verdict."


-------


CHL never had the $9 million costs in the first place, they were running on fumes!


A perfect example of how the press twist things!


And which "multinational company" are they referring to, CHL?

[jnbrw] 04/4/2019 17:44

Black is white

Evil is good

Roi claiming to be the poor, hard done by. Injured party in that article when in fact they are the most corrupt,deceiving, manipulating, evil entity going

Well why wouldn't they. It's all been aided and abetted ( and facilitated/engineered) by icsid.

[wulber] 04/4/2019 17:22

Corruption of governmental states!Just like FIFA.

[jack1236] 04/4/2019 16:35

JAKARTA-Indonesia for Global Justice (IGJ) welcomed Indonesia's victory over the IMFA. However, IGJ requested that the Indonesian Government not be unaware of Indonesia's victory over India Metal Ferro Alloys (IMFA) at the Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA). This is because the potential of the IMFA to avoid the obligations stipulated in the PCA decision can occur.

IGJ Executive Director, Rachmi Hertanti, explained that learning from the experience of the Churcill Mining lawsuit against Indonesia, there was an effort that the Annulment of the Awards petition against the ICSID verdict was one of the tricks to avoid the obligation to pay court fees ordered in the verdict.

"It is true that the victory over the IMFA has prevented the State from losing US $ 469 million. But there is the fact that the submission of an annulment of the award is one of the strategies of losing investors to avoid the obligation that causes enforcement of the verdict not to be carried out. Churchill's case must be a lesson for the Indonesian Government, "Rachmi explained.

Even though the Indonesian Government wins, the State will always be the defeated party. This is because multinational companies will continue to seek legal loopholes to avoid liability even though the court or arbitration has issued a verdict.

"Including the refusal of Churchill's application for the Annulment of the Awards by ICSID does not mean that Churchill will easily pay its obligations in accordance with the Decision. If in the end the government forces to confiscate Churchill's assets or conduct MLA, there will still be diplomatic costs that must be issued by the Government, "Rachmi said.

Rachmi again reminded that Indonesia still has the potential to be sued by foreign investors in international arbitration institutions. This is because the Indonesian International Trade and Investment Agreement still regulates the mechanism of the Investor-State Dispute Settlement (ISDS), which is a mechanism that gives investors the right to sue the state in international arbitration.

"Although the Indonesian Government has stopped many Bilateral Investment Treaties (BIT), the rules for survival clauses in the agreement do not invalidate the right of foreign investors to sue for a period of typically 10 to 15 years since the BIT was terminated. In addition, the Indonesia-Singapore BIT and the Indonesia-Australia CEPA which have just been signed by the Indonesian Government reload the ISDS mechanism and will certainly open opportunities for investors to sue, "Rachmi said

Especially in practice, many of the ISDS lawsuits are used by investors who do not have good intentions by using shoping nationality and shoping tax treaty. So that the increase in ISDS cases is also dominated by Frivolous claims that are detrimental to the state.

"Responding to a lawsuit by an investor who is not in good faith will harm Indonesia and will only burden the state budget. So, the ISDS mechanism should have been avoided by Indonesia, "Rachmi added.

Therefore IGJ urges the Indonesian Government not to forget the commitments that have been taken to avoid the ISDS mechanism and not to be regulated in Indonesia's international agreements, both BIT and FTA / CEPA.

hxxp://www.beritamoneter.com/menang-atas-imfa-pemerintah-jangan-lengah/

[jnbrw] 04/4/2019 16:03

An A level law student could have provided more expertise, fairness, balance and ultimately, justice.

It would be a fiasco if these blatantly flawed decisions are allowed to stand and make a mockery of the international arbitration process.

[neo26] 04/4/2019 10:16

The Indian company at the hague also had similar fate.They too lost over licenses overlapping. Jack posted link few days ago.

[andy] 04/4/2019 10:02

jnbrw,


I think it's a scandal, it's a political decision that ignored the basic norms of probity.

[jnbrw] 04/4/2019 09:55

Yes, I mean by the tribunal, the annulment committee and icsid in general. It is an absolute disgrace.

[andy] 04/4/2019 08:29

JNBRW,


Yes both the company and shareholders alike.

[jnbrw] 03/4/2019 22:48

we have been treated abysmally

[andy] 03/4/2019 21:20

Nick,neo,


Yes it may take a few weeks before we are informed officially whether there are any other avenues such as Paris are available to pursue, and whether they have te funds to actually pursue them.

[nico115] 03/4/2019 17:03

We listened to you and Stephen who said a win was a certainty Shame

[neo26] 03/4/2019 13:36

NickWe are all in dark it will probably be sometime before chl and administrators decide if any option is taken.Oxs continued..

[nick2412] 03/4/2019 13:22

Okay, that's interesting neo. But did Bolivia try for annulment with ICSID first? As CHL have already gone down that route that might preclude them from the courts. Hopefully not. We'll have to wait and see.

I know the international tribunals try to suggest finality rests with them via their internal rules. From what I have read, however, the domestic courts generally don't deem that to stand up to their own criteria about should and shouldn't be heard.