British Energy Share Discussion Threads

[jonak] 21/2/2008 21:14

I pulled the 3-6 month figure from the B&Q report....

Any news on new nukes ?

[scribbler101] 21/2/2008 13:41

"most people, given the choice between a windmill and a nuclear power plant, would choose the windmill."

So would I. But it's more like a million windmills. And I want electricity when the wind don't blow - common in the coldest of winter.

As to aesthetics; I do not say that they are ugly; merely that they are intrusive in a natural environment; particularly because the movement captures the eye. The London Eye is perhaps comparable. Would it be allowed on a hill-top in a National Park?

IIRC many people object to pylons.

I don't know about carbon debt but 3-6m sounds intuitively far too low for all that steel, transport, etc.

[jonak] 20/2/2008 04:06

Portugals lead:

[jonak] 20/2/2008 02:28

Hi Scribbler, I think the windmills are beautiful. I'd love one in my view.
Beauty is of course in the eye of the beholder, especially the well informed beholder !

A choice of power generator in the view would probably focus NIMBY-ist minds a little. I agree broadly speaking, with Dale on this, although I prefer education to authoritarianism.

To respond to some of your other points -
I think the carbon debt of windmills is paid off in about 3-6 months including manufacturing and maintainence through its life cycle !! Projected life span is about 25 years.

For a solar installation its about 1-2 years.

I've no figures for a nuclear power station.

Renewables will not entirely replace other forms of power generation in the short term. Energy storage is an issue with any single power generation method (for example nuclear power stations are extremely slow to respond to power demand variation) - coal and gas generation are typical the fast response sources. Coal is the biggest generator fuel (~40%), natural gas a close second (~30%), nuclear third (20%). Renewables of all forms provide about 4% of the UKs power (at ~ 1/5 th of nuclear). Most of that is from wind farms, since HMG has selected wind generation as its prime renewable technolgy; this follows Denmarks lead (Denmark generates ~14% of its energy is from by wind farms). Surprisingly little energy is generated from hydro-electric power schemes.

Nuclear has a larger role to play in UK power generation; but generation diversity seems to be a common theme driving future UK energy policy. Maybe because most people, given the choice between a windmill and a nuclear power plant, would choose the windmill.


some background links that may be of interest.
Deloittes review of UK energy portfolio, and expectations to 2020


B&Qs wind turbine installation:


Ernst and Young, largely concerned with what comes after Gas (which is running out and who wants to be beholden to Mr Putin?)


Grid related issues for diverse generation sources - inc summary of how fluctuating demand and generation are matched:


WWF report on generating companies in the UK region by region:

[dale gribble] 17/2/2008 08:35

Dribbler - my post was intentionally confrontational to stimulate debate!
It also was not aimed at you, but at the nimby element in general.

There is a concerted effort to block a proposal for a wind farm near to my old house in Yorkshire. There argument is that "they are too close to the village". Now, say to those same people that we are going to build a new gas fired station on the same spot, and the same argument would go up. Try to build a coal or nuke there and they would burst! Give it 10 years when the lights go out, and those same people will be blaming the government for not supplying them with power. I mean, look at the objections to damming the severn river. "ooh, 1000's of birds will get confused"!!!!

The government need to just give permission to build these stations, and sod the locals. And get on with it! I agree wind is not viable due to the huge carbon debt it builds up in construction. We already have an environmentally friendly form of energy, nuclear. Lets use it.

[scribbler101] 17/2/2008 02:21

Dribble - The fans are little use as the wind often does not blow so 100% of their capacity needs to be held in reserve in some other energy source. I am not wholly against them, but the only serious CO2 free energy source is nuclear. HMG is FINALLY coming round to this, but what we NEED is a wartime scale concentration of effort on installing enough breeder reactors to make coal fired fuel generation no more than a reserve capacity.

So as that won't happen here - let alone in BRIC - best work out how to cope with global warming than pretend it will be avoided.

PS Please impute ad hominem arguments if you want them.

[dale gribble] 16/2/2008 19:22

What a pathetic argument.

mmmmm.. Climate change, or "Deirdre, those blasted fans are making a mockery of my view over the nene valley".

Unfortunately these stupid arguments and nimbys will continue until the power eventually flickers. Then it will be too late.

And yes, I can have an opinion on this, I live in "megawatt alley" on the aire/calder corridor, in between 3 coal fired power stations.

[scribbler101] 16/2/2008 12:20

jonak - are you saying that because it's a wind farm it can't have an adverse effect on the environment - visually, or from noise, access roads, wiring, bird chopping?

Turn the question round. A friend's house in Gloucestershire has a beautiful view over a valley to a range of hills. But the view cannot be enjoyed as one's eye is inevitably drawn to the large MOVING fan planted on top.

Windfarms are notmally sited in places where no other sort of development would have a hope of getting permission.

[jonak] 15/2/2008 21:27

on a tangential topic, I'm amazed there is so much opposition to wind farms based on 'environmental concerns'. Err... its a wind farm, hello ? Maybe a choice for Lewis would be more appropriate - a wind farm, a coal power station or a nuclear power station, or no electricity at all.

[hightech] 14/2/2008 08:16

I wonder who sold/shorted at 470p yesterday. That's 18% change!. It can reach to 200% by year end IMO.

[umitw] 13/2/2008 11:50

HT people heard you.LOL

[hightech] 13/2/2008 08:32

PE is 6 and special dividend of 14.5p to start with... despite having four reactors down for half a year.
They will be back in the 2nd and 3rd quarters...
BGY can sell any of the current sites for new generation of nuclear reactors.

Whole sale price is higher than last year... I wonder why it's down by over 2% today!!!

[umitw] 12/2/2008 13:00

Any reason this is being shorted?

[hightech] 29/1/2008 14:22

NEW QUESTION:

ARE WE REALLY FACING A POSSIBLE RECESSION OR THAT's A NEW GAME being played!!

[hightech] 29/1/2008 14:12

Manufacturing is alive and well.
Durable Goods Orders Rise by 5.2 Percent twice expected by the analysts.

Why do they get it wrong so much?
DOW closed 1.45% up, we closed down over 1.5% yesterday. They are going to open higher and we are only up 1.25%.

[tilmanstone] 18/1/2008 13:51

Very difficult to call from here: Its just gone north of the 40 day SMA and interestingly the 400 day average too, so chartwise in the short term it looks good. On the L-term chart however it looks stuck in a channel between 400-590.
On the Fundamental side with the UK renewed commitment to nuclear you would assume its a good takeover bet. DYOR etc etc, I'm not in (YET)!

[chrisanderton] 18/1/2008 12:33

bummer, looks like 510 might have been the peachy entry point

[hightech] 18/1/2008 08:33

It is fallen so much on news known to everyone. Did they shorted before releasing the news!!!?
Good opportunity for a bidder IMO.

[tlee05] 17/1/2008 18:52

Its just the quiet ones ;)

[chrisanderton] 17/1/2008 12:31

is it the big boys who move this one? as it's always pretty inactive on here yet the share will swing 20% in a week..

[tlee05] 17/1/2008 11:40

be on the safe side 500p

[chrisanderton] 17/1/2008 11:03

what do we reckon the bottom will be this time - 480p/500p?

[chrisanderton] 17/1/2008 09:36

it always amazes me how quick this one moves - it's burnt me many times before

[hightech] 16/1/2008 17:01

I love to see it cheaper too. Missed today's fall.

[chrisanderton] 16/1/2008 13:02

looking good so far, i'm not short (as i only play long) but will re-enter at anything under £5 - fingers crossed.. longs i'm sure you've got enough confidence to hold on for the next upswing..