Bradford & Bingley Share Discussion Threads

[zastas] 31/7/2011 16:29

Santander paid about 500 million for a relatively large 20 billion deposit book plus property, sold in a hurry over one WE by Brown's HMG. Normally you'd expect it to be able to give you a 1-2% lending margin, so expected profit from having that book alone about 200-400 million per year. At a low PE of about 5 would suggest the real value of such a big book would be 1-2 billion. Santander in its first results stated how beneficial it had been to their bottom line!

UKAR has just reported the interims. B&B profit about 150 million in six months. Remains depressed by HMG's own stategy of ultra-low base at 0.5%. Now 2.5 billion in equity( including that 500 million). Was about 1 billion on nationalisation. HMG paid not a penny and B&B has not needed a penny in equity. CR remains above 10%. Also still about 750 million of already reserved provisions, which never may needed.

It's true, B&B needed liquidity support. But much less it urns out than almost all others such as HBOS/LLoyds, which also required large injections of capital, and hundreds funded by the ECB. King has admitted to secret support for HBOS etc from early 2008.

Only HMG support is an 8 billion Working Capital Facility. HMG borrows at 3% currently and charged 1.5%. So 2.5 years loss on WCF is 300 million. But 1.5 billion in equity gain, (+ ? 750 provisions) net paper profit 1.2 billion. For no investment. Now B&B 'asked' to pay base plus 5.0%, is 5.5%. Net profit on WCF alone for Treasury will now be 200 million per year.

Nice work. I only wish we could all expropriate others in this way, and pass any law to justify daylight robbery.

[pvb] 31/7/2011 15:08

Well yes, if shareholders in public companies were all backed by tax_ payers then I guess the shareholders could all make a lot of money!

[daytraders] 31/7/2011 13:55

Yeh, the goverment should have just gave BB the money like they did with other banks, they would have been making good money as well now, just like we would have.

[gbh2] 31/7/2011 13:37

Santander wasn't given anything, they paid 150 million for the good bit of the B&B!

However once again I point out its not Santander that was at fault is was the numpty Labour government that panicked and virtually gave the B&B to them!!

[pvb] 31/7/2011 13:04

gbh2 - 31 Jul'11 - 10:35 - 18482 of 18484

It would be more rational to say you're not voting Labour ever again, they were the ones that stole our money and virtually gave B&B to Santander!

Again, I don't think B&B was given to Santander. The retail savings part of B&B, after separation from the 'toxic' part, was given to Santander.

[optomistic] 31/7/2011 12:16

gbh2 - 31 Jul'11 - 10:35 - 18483 of 18483


oopps!

=====================================================

But so true and yet how many ex shareholders will forget that when they go to the polls!

[gbh2] 31/7/2011 10:35

It would be more rational to say you're not voting Labour ever again, they were the ones that stole our money and virtually gave B&B to Santander!

[loganair] 31/7/2011 10:17

pvb - Many companies are profitable overal, but some of their division are loss making. Except for just one year, overal B&B as a company were highly profitable.

In that same one year virtually all European banks made a loss with those losses being far, far larger than B&B and are still around to day making profits with Share holders down but not out on their investment.

I accept the fact that I'm almost certain not to receive a penny back from my investment in B&B. However all my family have closed their Santander (ex B&B and A&L) savings accounts and have taken their funds else where. Even if Santander were to offer 10% on savings I wouldn't even go through their front door and their sevice to customers is absolutly horrific.

[daytraders] 30/7/2011 16:34

yes but when the company does bad the shares go down, just like they did with barc,rbs and lloyds, then when they do good they go up just like they did in mentioned banks, we did not get the chance, when the shares in BB hit lows they were taken from us, when mentioned banks hit lows they were given bailouts, now look at them, 200% or more up, were up like 400% since even.

[pvb] 30/7/2011 15:55

loganair - 30 Jul'11 - 14:50 - 18477 of 18478

Daytraders - There is also the part sold off to Santander which makes a profit of at least £100mln to £150mln a year for them.

But can I point out that when you own shares in a company you own shares in the company. Not just in the profitable parts of the company.

[daytraders] 30/7/2011 15:49

Yeh i know, i try to let my loss go, but just annoys me that they jumped the gun with BB, did not even attempt to bail them out like they did with the banks.

[loganair] 30/7/2011 14:50

Daytraders - There is also the part sold off to Santander which makes a profit of at least £100mln to £150mln a year for them.

Therefore B&B this year are going to make a profit of at least £450mln. And we're continually being told by the powers to be that B&B was bust, when for that year it only made a £150mln loss when the year before it made a good profit and the year after B&B made another good profit.

[daytraders] 30/7/2011 11:51

yeh still makes me sick what i lost here, just proves if BB was left alone just like the banks were we would have all been ok, just look at all the banks profits over the last few years.

[loganair] 30/7/2011 09:22

UK Asset Resolution, the holding company of Bradford and Bingley and Northern Rock (Asset Management), has repaid a further one billion pounds of government loans, bringing the total to 2.1 billion pounds over the last 18 months. Bradford and Bingley reported underlying first half pre-tax profits of 152 million pounds, up 82% on last year's comparable period. In turn Northern Rock saw underlying pre-tax profits rise 89% to 344.1 million pounds for the first half of the year. The nationalised banks have also reported that integration is processing well and significant synergies have been achieved.


B&B has therefore made a profit 3 out of the last 4 years, in total over £1bln in profits during this time. B&B was never an insolvent bank, was brought to it's knees so could be got rid of. Right back in late 2007 I was posting that the other banks didn't like the former building socities of B&B, A&L, NRK and with in 18 months would no longer exist as private entities and how right I was.

The lucky ones were A&L as at least their share holders got a few Santander shares (£3 per share), even though a year earlier B&B's CEO who was then A&L CEO turned down a bid for over £12 per share.

[greenrichard] 21/7/2011 14:22

FSA refuses to report on Bradford & Bingley failure

Emma Ann Hughes
FTAdviser
Published Thursday , July 21, 2011

Andrew Tyrie MP, chairman of the Treasury select committee, has revealed the contents of a letter sent to him by Adair Turner, chairman of the FSA.


In a four-page letter sent to Mr Tyrie on the 11 July, Lord Turner said the FSA had considered making public its findings on why banking giants had collapsed.

However, Lord Turner said while the regulator had talked about problems at RBS and HBoS it did not think it was worthwhile revealing why former building society Bradford & Bingley was brought to its knees during the financial crisis.

He said: "None of the other institutions that failed in 2008 was of the scale of RBS and HBoS. None is therefore likely to reveal lessons essential to our understanding of the causes of the crisis nor the steps needed to ensure better regulation and supervision in the future."

[pwhite73] 08/7/2011 23:19

The appalling scandal involving the News of the World and the government is not too disimilar from the appalling scandal involving the banks and the government.

Corrupt and guilty individuals are in bed with the government.

[get rich quick] 30/6/2011 19:20

well at least it gives these greedy overpaid lawers a chance to sponge some more money

[chesty1] 30/6/2011 18:18

Are we dead n buried....NOT just yet....

[debbiegee] 28/6/2011 18:43

thanks knowing.

[knowing] 28/6/2011 15:41

Upper Tribunal Further Submission

THE NATIONALISATION OF BRADFORD & BINGLEY [B&B]

Whether due to Criminal Deception or Political Subterfuge, it is time for an Independent Inquiry.

The B&B Action Group [BBAG] campaign has replied to the Statement of Case of the Respondent, the independent valuer of the B&B Compensation Scheme Peter Clokey [PC], which was made in accordance with Schedule 3 to the Tribunal Procedure [Upper Tribunal] Rules 2008 and the directions made by the President of the Upper Tribunal.

This response is available on our website at www.bbaction.org/News.htm .

Our view and our legal advisers is that the Valuer's 'in administration' terms of reference specified by the previous Government ensured that a nil valuation was inevitable.

The responses of various government departments and the tripartite regulators to thousands of requests for information after the Nationalisation have been a mix of obfuscation and subterfuge. This and the information restrictions placed on the Compensation Order has prevented BBAG from properly exercising its rights of appeal. Just one example highlights the previous Government's desperate attempts to conceal the truth in the months prior to the General Election in May 2010. The Cabinet Office's reply to a request for details of the sequence of events pre and post the nationalisation under the Freedom of Information Act [FOI] was 'we have no files whatsoever'. This statement was untrue. On the 26th of September 2008 Gordon Brown in a telephone conversation with Alistair Darling made the decision to nationalise B&B which had a far stronger balance sheet than the Royal Bank of Scotland or Halifax Bank of Scotland who received over £60 billion of support just eight days after the B&B nationalisation. The following week the Conservative Party Conference was being held and there is little doubt that the Prime Minister's decision was motivated by fear of David Cameron's clean cut features interposed with queues of savers outside B&B branches on the TV screens of the nation.

All the evidence suggests that the reporting standards approved by the previous Government were flawed. How else were B&B's auditors able to sign off the 2007 Report & Accounts as a going concern and the Rights Issue, completed less than two months before the Nationalisation at a share price of 55p, be approved by the Financial Services Authority [FSA]. Standing in front of a well attended city analyst's meeting on the 29th August 2008, one month before the Nationalisation, the message of the B&B Chairman Rod Kent and the Chief Executive Richard Pym was:

"THE RECENT FUNDRAISING REINFORCES OUR POSITION AS ONE OF THE BEST CAPITALISED BANKS IN THE UK. WE ARE WELL CAPABLE OF RIDING OUT THE CURRENT STORM"

This message was repeated in a B&B board press release on the 25/09/08 and by Rod Kent to the Treasury Select Committee on the 18/11/08 which was in stark contrast with the briefings by Treasury officials to Robert Peston of the BBC whose comments in the media and the press caused a run on the B&B savings book and a false market in its shares and bonds. In paragraph 25, section 15 in Peter Clokey's statement to the Tribunal he does not accept the accuracy of these assertions, so who has been telling the truth in all of this?

The failure of the previous Government and the tripartite regulatory system resulted in a flawed decision made in haste for political reasons by Gordon Brown. We have urged the Tribunal to recommend to the present Government that a full and independent inquiry be established to find where the truth lies and recommend measures to properly protect private investors from any further debacles of this nature.

SHARESOC

On the 20th May 2010 we advised you of a new legal entity, B&B Action Ltd, formed as a company limited by guarantee so as to continue the fight for B&B shareholders. This initiative was taken so that BBAG could take whatever action it was felt necessary and so that it could be focused on the interests of B&B investors alone and would have better control over administrative costs (as opposed to relying on a third party which we had done previously). Since then a new not for profit organisation, "Sharesoc" otherwise known as the "UK Individual Shareholders Society", has been formed to promote the wider interests of shareholders in UK registered public companies. I am a board member of this new organisation and the chairman is Roger Lawson who is also a director of BBAG. Their website is www.sharesoc.org . I recommend you visit that website and apply for associate membership which is free of charge if you have a wider interest in stock market affairs other than just in Bradford & Bingley.


Yours Sincerely,

David Blundell
Chairman

[birchin] 08/6/2011 22:08

keya5000

Looking at it again it could be.

At the end of the day we all know the out come.

[keya5000] 08/6/2011 20:59

Birchin is the info you refer to just Clokey's reply????

[yng1nvestor] 08/6/2011 17:54

oh dear

Benny held 17,500 of these beuties on N DAY.

Pooh in the garden tonight