Biocare Share Discussion Threads

[kmcl] 27/4/2001 15:38

All the indices up, buys outnumbering sells 20:1 on good volume - and the bid price is still stuck on 0.20 - surely somethings got to give?

[jengo] 27/4/2001 10:19

2 buys of 100K just gone thro' - does someone know something?

jengo

[whale2] 26/4/2001 20:15

Annual report expected 30 may 01 source Hem Scot



next AR year end 31-Dec-00Previous Forecast _____________________________ _____________________________year end 31-Dec-99 prelim results 28-Feb-01prelim results 23-Mar-00 annual report 30-May-011st qtr results 30-Jun-00 agm 5-Jun-01annual report 14-Jul-00 1st qtr results 30-Jun-01int results 10-Aug-00 int results 10-Aug-01agm 5-Sep-00 3rd qtr results 7-Nov-013rd qtr results 7-Nov-00_____________________________ _____________________________

[forwood] 26/4/2001 10:03

When are Q1 results due to be announced?

[piu888] 26/4/2001 00:32

They were buys because the paid prices were higher than recent sell price.

[kmcl] 26/4/2001 00:15

gekky
What makes you think they are buys? I have no information to suggest you are wrong other than the bid price falling around the same time. If there is any info suggesting buys can you pass it on?

[haystack] 25/4/2001 20:20

If you look at the trades on ADVFN you will see that at 10:37 there was a trade of 100,000 at 21.875p. This is the missing 100,000. I looks like the first half of the rollover was posted to the trades incorrectly as 100,000. The final details were corrected later the first trade being the clusure of the rest of the T+ and the second trade is the reinstatemnt of the T+. The calculation of the price for the sale on a rollover of a long is based on the offer price not the bif (that is done when it is a rollover of short). The first trade is a sell closure of the T+ at a lower price than the offer and the reinstatment of the long is at the offer (where it would naturally be). The difference between the prices is the cost for rolling it over. The spread was 20p - 22p at the time of the trade. The difference between the trades was .125p times 1,200,000 or £1,500. It looks to be almost certainly a T+ long rollover.

[gekky] 25/4/2001 19:13

kmcl
In response to ur posting earlier, I apologise for the delay in replying to your question.Both of these trades in question occurred at 10:37 and 10:38 BUT were reported by the MM's an hour later hence the DELAYED trade flag as shwn by my market-eye.Now, at the time these trades took place the bid-offer was 21.5 and 22 respectively IMH and limited trading experience together with simple logic tells me that they were buys.
I have heard and read that there are trades that SELL at the offer and BUY at the bid however I have yet to experience this.The most I have been able to do is squeeze a little more from the current bid when selling and pay a little less on the offer when buying but there is no chance of doing either when the spreads are tight.And I do not consider my deals to be small where applicable and market size allows they can go up to £50k.
However the exception to this again from my limited experience is when dealing in SETS stocks where limit orders are being used but never where market makers are concerned.
Also in response to your comments Haystack,what u say does make sense but could u explain to me why he was given.375p more than the current bid at that time?
And why there was a difference of 100k shares on the two transactions?

regds

[mr.elbee] 25/4/2001 14:49

If wagner goes,will the stock be worth buying?Following much of Haystack's logic over the year it would seem so.

[haystack] 25/4/2001 13:37

The two trades in question were not delayed trades. As they were bothat 22p and the spread was 20p -22p at the time, then they are almost certainly BUYS. People do buy the strangest things.

When I look at the trades more carefully on ADVFN (I was looking on myTrack before), I can see that the trades were at 22p and 21.875p. This looks more like a rollover of a long position as the lower price came first. This would have been the sell followed by a new buy. The difference is the charge made by the MM for the cash and new (rollover) of the position. The trades were on a few seconds apart, suggesting that they were connected.

EDITED

[gekky] 25/4/2001 11:52

Your right piu888,just noticed two delayed trades of 1.1m and 1.2m both of which in my opinion are buys..Something is most definitely brewing!

[piu888] 25/4/2001 10:25

BSN is attracting plenty of buyers now.

[skylark] 25/4/2001 08:51

The following article appears in today's FT:

"Dan Wagner, the entre-preneur who runs Bright Station, is understood to be looking at ways to break up the internet technology group in a move that would see him step down from its board.

Reports speculating on the plan - coupled with the announcement of an alliance with IBM to market Smart-logik solutions - helped push Bright Station shares up 9 per cent to 20 1/2p yesterday. This compares with a high of 232 1/2p set last year.

If Mr Wagner's plans are realised they would leave Smartlogik - one of Bright Station's portfolio companies, which produces knowledge management software - with its own stock market listing.

This would ensure the software company, which is considered Bright Station's most promising asset, would be able to use the Pounds 16m of cash left on the group's balance sheet for its own development, rather than sharing it with other companies in the portfolio.

Other businesses in the group - including Sparza, which runs e-commerce operations on behalf of small companies, and Office Shopper, an office products e-tailer - would be taken private if funding can be raised. If this fails, the businesses might be closed.

Mr Wagner made his name in the City when he floated Maid, an online information service, in 1994. The company then made an audacious reverse takeover of rival Knight Ridder Information to create Dialog Corporation - a move which left it burdened with debt.

He was forced to sell the online information business last year to reduce borrowings but took advantage of the internet boom to resurrect his creation as Bright Station - with Dollars 44m (Pounds 30.7m) in cash and a few core technologies that had been developed for the online delivery of information.

The share price has fallen sharply along with its peers since the technology bubble burst last year.

Mr Wagner believes that a break-up would make Smart-logik's value more transparent and that by stepping down from the company investors might focus more on the performance of the business than on his record as an entrepreneur."

[skylark] 25/4/2001 08:49

There is an article in the FT today:

"Dan Wagner, the entre-preneur who runs Bright Station, is understood to be looking at ways to break up the internet technology group in a move that would see him step down from its board.

Reports speculating on the plan - coupled with the announcement of an alliance with IBM to market Smart-logik solutions - helped push Bright Station shares up 9 per cent to 20 1/2p yesterday. This compares with a high of 232 1/2p set last year.

If Mr Wagner's plans are realised they would leave Smartlogik - one of Bright Station's portfolio companies, which produces knowledge management software - with its own stock market listing.

This would ensure the software company, which is considered Bright Station's most promising asset, would be able to use the Pounds 16m of cash left on the group's balance sheet for its own development, rather than sharing it with other companies in the portfolio.

Other businesses in the group - including Sparza, which runs e-commerce operations on behalf of small companies, and Office Shopper, an office products e-tailer - would be taken private if funding can be raised. If this fails, the businesses might be closed.

Mr Wagner made his name in the City when he floated Maid, an online information service, in 1994. The company then made an audacious reverse takeover of rival Knight Ridder Information to create Dialog Corporation - a move which left it burdened with debt.

He was forced to sell the online information business last year to reduce borrowings but took advantage of the internet boom to resurrect his creation as Bright Station - with Dollars 44m (Pounds 30.7m) in cash and a few core technologies that had been developed for the online delivery of information.

The share price has fallen sharply along with its peers since the technology bubble burst last year.

Mr Wagner believes that a break-up would make Smart-logik's value more transparent and that by stepping down from the company investors might focus more on the performance of the business than on his record as an entrepreneur.
"

[jt] 25/4/2001 00:35

From todays Guardian newspaper.

[haystack] 25/4/2001 00:29

This is not a 'deal' or 'a massive contract'. It is just a joint marketing contract. All it means is that IBM have accepted BSN as an IBM solution probvider. This is a status that many software houses have, including mine. The deal is that if you have something that will run on IBM kit then you tell IBM and they look at it. IF they are happy then you become solution provider and IBM puts your services or software on their list of approved suppliers. They list it in a dirctory of product and services. This is usually the extent of the joint marketing.

[haystack] 25/4/2001 00:29

This is not a 'deal' or 'a massive contract'. It is just a joint marketing contract. All it means is that IBM have accepted BSN as an IBM solution probvider. This is a status that many software houses have, including mine. The deal is that if you have something that will run on IBM kit then you tell IBM and they look at it. IF they are happy then you become solution provider and IBM puts your services or software on their list of approved suppliers. They list it in a dirctory of product and services. This is usually the extent of the joint marketing.

[haystack] 24/4/2001 23:47

Well. Isn't that a coincidence.

[jt] 24/4/2001 19:01

Here is the Guardian article of todays date.

Investor`s Week editorial last thursday suggested how to spot a recovery stock
"Classic recovery businesses are ones where there is one main issue hanging over the share price that can be resolved relatively easily". A la the Guardian article, Dan seems to be going!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jt] 24/4/2001 18:51

Well at least some thought it was a reasonable announcement, the purchase of 2.5 million shares today must count for something.

[kmcl] 24/4/2001 18:10

Summit

The point Haystack makes is relevant. The city will not listen to BSN promises of future revenues. Dan's track record on delivery of revenue over the various incarnations of BSN has rendered his promises worthless. The price will react when increased revenues and profitability actually appear.

The tieups with Intel and IBM have massive potential - but potential is not good enough at the moment - the Q1 figures will set the tone. Has the cash burn been addressed, are the other divisions pulling their weight, are we meeting expectations?

There are other pressing questions - who is selling big time at the moment and why? The PRU position is not at all clear to me, and todays protected trade is difficult to understand given IBM's announcement and the imminent Q1 results.

It has been suggested on the iii bb today that the potential of recent BSN deals and their current undervaluation, may already have attracted a preditor.

I'm hoping for no shocks with Q1 results, and that the steady drip feed of large
sells over the past week or so dries up. If both occur together perhaps we will see a recovery larger than todays 1.75p.

[haystack] 24/4/2001 16:49

I don't think that the one signed with BSN is in any way different to the many thousands that they sign. It looks a pretty ordinary distribution deal. You have to remember that Dan was a salesman originally. The announcement looks like it has been given some added spin that it doesn't deserve.

[adam45] 24/4/2001 16:27

Kayak

Thanks, but I'm aware of the ways in which Marketing departments work.

IBM signs many thousands of the sort of agreements that Haystack was talking about. They sign a whole lot less of the type of agreement announced today with BSN.

[kayak] 24/4/2001 16:11

adam45, quotes are rarely actual quotes, particularly in company-produced documentation such as brochures or RNSs. What happens is that a Marketing/PR person will write some text and give it to the company for approval, most of the time not even to the person who is meant to have said it. This is why you will find that whenever quotes from a number of people are reported, the style of speech is identical for all of them :-)

When I used to work as a manager I often had the pleasure of reading things that I would never had said, had I had the opportunity of saying themm, or even the opportunity, for that matter, of seeing them before they were printed...

Marketing/PR people know that to you it looks like the chap at IBM thought so highly of the product that he took the trouble to write a letter of thanks for the opportunity, but nothing could be further from the truth. As Haystack says IBM signs many of these agreements a year.