Value And Indexed Proper... Share Discussion Threads

[topvest] 06/4/2019 16:22

Yes, it's an interesting situation. On the equity side the performance has been a tad poor of late with notably poor investments in Conviviality and Carillion to name just two! On the property side performance has been better.
I tend to agree that it's probably a falling out and the two managers have decided to go. They own 18% and so I suspect that this is a first step. Maybe a tender offer, running alongside a competitive process for a new investment manager mandate.

[coolen] 05/4/2019 21:13

I believe the manager may have over-enthused on Conviviality, to name one of two embarrassments.

[johnwig] 04/4/2019 12:26

topvest, you have no idea what you are talking about, do you?

[konkel] 03/4/2019 05:29

My guess is their departures were not voluntary...sustained period of underperformance (bottom quartile over 5 years) which has led to a very wide discount.
It will be very interesting what Oakeshott does with his very substantial holding. Should he want out then maybe a buyer for the trust as a whole would come in (Aurora/Phoenix?)

[topvest] 02/4/2019 22:01

Oh yes, well spotted. Disappointing news. This seems to be a particularly abrupt departure. Why is it that 1. No notice period announced; and 2. Both are going on the same day. Seems a bit of a mess for such a well run trust. No handover. Nothing! What's going on?

[konkel] 02/4/2019 06:41

This trust is now vulnerable follwing managers' departures....I'll happily take NAV less a bit!

[konkel] 02/4/2019 06:41

This trust is now vulnerable follwing managers' departures....I'll happily take NAV less a bit!

[ygor705] 21/3/2019 08:53

Picked up a few more of these yesterday after a quick look at the property portfolio. It looks pretty well spread without much exposure to the more vulnerable kind of shopping tenant. Pubs and food stores seem to feature quite a bit and very little is up for review in the next 5 years. It's not exposed to the more go go big box sectors covered by SEGRO, Tritax and Big Yellow but looks middle-of-the road in risk terms. The shares are up a bit this morning but down in the 250s do offer a 20%ish discount to NAV, good spread of investment risk and the opportunity to invest on similar terms to the Chairman and his wife!

[spectoacc] 26/7/2018 06:33

Apologies @strathroyal, meant LWDB - will edit

[strathroyal] 25/7/2018 18:19

Specto - LWB comes up as Low & Bonar, presumably that's not who you mean?

[spectoacc] 25/7/2018 15:02

@shalder - was the d buying that made me look again in truth. Obviously keen.

Think the winding up was something like 2027? Trust should look very different then with both the 2021 & 2026 debentures done with.

[shalder] 25/7/2018 14:23

There is persistent substantial buying activity by Matthew Oakeshott & connected vehicles.

There is also I believe provision for future windup of the trust which would realise the value in the big price discount to nav.

I wonder whether the two things are in any way related?

[spectoacc] 25/7/2018 13:06

@strathroyal - I don't disagree with you, there's certainly an argument for holding a prop co (eg SHED, RGL, WHR) & a ftse250 tracker (or picking own shares) instead of VIN. I reckon you'd get a better yield , & more equity success, at lower cost.

At least the likes of BTEM pick such esoteric holdings that there's no danger of being a tracker.

VIN will get more interesting when the debentures are cleared - they justify the (historic) 9% cost by pointing out they make c.11% pa in property, but that includes capital growth and they're buying stuff on 6-7% yields now. There's not a lot of room for when the market drops 20% (as both property markets, and equity markets, always do at some point).

LWDB is another I hold that's similar - part stock-picking IT, part completely separate professional services business. But unless the stock picking is a success, what's the point? Discount, I guess, is the answer.

[strathroyal] 25/7/2018 12:09

I'm also a holder but have a less positive view. They are a fairly unique IT in view of their large property holding which underpins a reasonable dividend hence my involvement but I have been disappointed with their equity holdings. I notice that at the last update NAV (03/07/18) was 1p below that at the beginning of August last year, no doubt due in part to the two shares you refer to.

I also like to use my IT holdings as masterfunds and invest in their holdings as well as the IT itself. For example I hold NAS and have either held or hold BQE, OIG, BBB, EFK. Another example would be BTEM where I hold or have held JPEL, PSH and RSE.

I have not been able to find similar investments via VIN and intend to sell when I'm in profit (around 280p).

[spectoacc] 25/7/2018 11:49

I admit it's a while since I looked in depth at these, but remain a holder.

They sold out of CLLN for a big hit (c.-44% I think) but avoided a 100% loss.

Sadly they weren't so sharp on Conviviality, where they did lose 100%.

They try to be fully invested in income-producing shares. Nothing wrong with that, but they clearly over-trade - JLIF was sold well before the bid for eg.

The 2021 & 2026 debentures need to mature to lower the debt costs. Otherwise, remain a fan of VIN.

[coolen] 04/4/2018 16:54

1m shares held in Conviviality and 1m shares in Carillion, albeit the latter sold before the final demise, I believe ?

[asmodeus] 04/4/2018 14:41

What explains the falling share price especially the 4.6% drop so far today? Anyone know, please?

[davebowler] 15/1/2018 15:58

31 Dec NAV Ordinary share (debt at Fair Value) 328.66p

[mozy123] 19/12/2017 20:06

45,549,975 - total shares

As of march year end

Matthew Oakeshott 4,116,043
Matthew Oakeshott – Family 2,546,042

Purchases so far this year since march 800k

total 7,462,085

so 16.36% of the company.

[speedsgh] 19/12/2017 18:02

@Mozy123 - see

[mozy123] 19/12/2017 17:14

Anyone have upto date holdings of Angela Lascelles and Matthew Oakeshott as a % of the entire share capital?

[davebowler] 19/12/2017 13:14

NAV 30 Nov 320.9p

[spectoacc] 25/8/2017 16:06

Still a big fan of this slow burner, directors got skin in the game.

[davebowler] 25/8/2017 14:40

NAV 31 Jul Ordinary share (debt at Fair Value) (pence): 320.97p