Socialgo Share Discussion Threads

[the analyst] 28/11/2012 21:33

Something strange about the trade, is that is was put through at the (then) offer price of 0.3p, rather than the bid price of 0.25p. Not optimal for creating a maximal tax loss to off-set against gains elsewhere.

This was most likely a blunder on the part of his broker, but does the fact he didn't get it reversed and put through at the better price mean he is not that bothered about the losses?.

Does this mean that he is much more interested in the fact he is sheltering from future gains, than the tax losses?

Always looking for something to cling on to, lol!

[the analyst] 28/11/2012 21:23

Another 13m shares tucked away into DW's SIPP today.

Obviously, it's a tax avoidance move, but we don't know why and so don't know the implications for investors. Which of the following is most likely?

a) it's good - because he thinks the share price is going to improve. So, he wants to protect those gains from tax. At the same time, he would also benefit from a paper loss on the sale into his SIPP that he can use against gains elsewhere.

or,

b) it's bad - he thinks the company is going bust and has decided it would be better to use the tax loss sooner, rather than later.

It can take a few years after a company goes into administration before losses can be used against tax, so sometimes it is better to do it sooner (whilst listed), rather than years later. Right now he can off-set the losses against a 50p tax rate, next year that would be 45% and potentially the year after, 40%.

IT would be good to know the reason - if it's a good one (for investors), now would most likely be a great time to buy shares!

But are there any investors out there brave enough to take a gamble on that?

[dodge city] 27/11/2012 16:43

To Dims credit he is trying to make a go of the business and is showing loyalty to his employees.

But handing the controls over to Halliday looks like a fatal mistake and the transition to V2 was a disaster waiting to happen, he should have seen that.

[the analyst] 27/11/2012 16:36

"not sure where you get your £4 mill valuation from though"

It's not my valuation of the company as it stands, it's the valuation I would take like a shot. If there was a reverse-takeover, then the synergies might be enough to boost SGO's valuation in the deal by quite some margin.

Certainly, I think the customers (still over a thousand, I believe) the technology (cost £6.2m to develop), the AIM listing + some assets should be worth more than the current £0.9m share price.

[the analyst] 27/11/2012 16:32

One thing I don't doubt, is that DW wants to create value here.

He is a good guy, in my opinion.

The only doubt seems to be whether he has the necessary ability.

[dodge city] 27/11/2012 16:29

analyst.
Yes a reverse takeover is another option and may well be the plan here, not sure where you get your £4 mill valuation from though.

[dodge city] 27/11/2012 16:28

Stevn,
I suggest that Catalis are keeping Socialgo on life support at the moment with the hope that the business will show signs that it can be turned around.

I would imagine they will support it for so long and then either pull the plug altogether if it is a lost cause otherwise take it over completely and absorb it into Catalis as just another division.

[the analyst] 27/11/2012 16:26

I guess that Catalis taking over SGO is a possibility, albeit a remote one. Or perhaps Catlais might like to move over to AIM (save costs) and reverse into SGO, raise cash at the same time etc?

That said if they do look at those sort of deals, I would prefer a different company to reverse in - one that is profitable and has experience in this type of business.

If a profitable, £20m market cap company were to offer to reverse into SGO, valuing our company at £4m, I'd take it like a shot!

[dodge city] 27/11/2012 16:23

Desperate and it won't work, it also suggests that they have lost alot of customers.

[the analyst] 27/11/2012 16:20

50% off discount email from SocialGO

"Hey, long time no see. We've missed you.

That's why we'll give you 50% off any plan for the first 6 months, if you give SocialGO another go today! Remind yourself of all the awesome social network features and get started with a free trial.

To claim your HALF PRICE offer, simply email [e-mail] quoting 'HALVEIT' and your network URL to get your discount!
Offer valid on new networks created until 31/12/2012"

[stevn] 27/11/2012 16:14

Dodge,

Do you mean, take out SGO?

- Catalis pay SGO £50k per month for services.
- SGO Market Cap £1M, not sure how much debt...

Certainly need a prosperous Catalis SE.

[dodge city] 27/11/2012 16:02

So will SGO be delisted and absorbed into Catalis.

[the analyst] 27/11/2012 16:00

Some positive news from Catalis = good news for SocialGO?


"20.11.12 11:17
Ad hoc Release: Catalis SE announces 2012 Q3 and nine months results – The turnaround continued to filter through to the operating result and operating cash flow

Eindhoven, November 20, 2012 - Catalis SE, the worldwide service provider for the digital media and entertainment industry, is pleased to announce its financial results for the third quarter and first nine months of 2012. Through successful restructuring and adjustments, the Group has achieved turnaround and confirmed the trend that began to emerge in the first quarter of 2012.

The unaudited results for the first nine months of fiscal year 2012 are as follows:

Q3 revenues at € 7.3m (2011: € 7.4m)

Q3 EBIT at € 0.4m (2011: € +0.0m)

EBIT first nine months of 2012 up to € 0.6m (2011: € 0.5m)

Nine month revenues of € 20.8m were nearly equal to 2011(€ 20.9m)

Operating cash flow for the first nine months of 2012 amounted to € 1.7m

In the first nine months of the fiscal year 2012, Catalis Group revenues of € 20.9m were nearly equal to 2011 revenues of € 20.8m. The EBIT increased from € 0.5m to € 0.6m. In the third quarter of the fiscal year 2012, revenues of Catalis Group were € 7.3m and its EBIT was € 0.4m.

Testronic had revenues for the third quarter of 2012 of € 4.6m (2011: € 4.1m). Testronic generated an EBIT in the period of € 0.8m (2011: € 0.7m). For the first nine months of 2012, revenues amounted to € 12.1m (2011: € 10.1m), representing an increase of 19.8%. Testronic's EBIT for the first nine months of 2012 amounted to € 1.3m (2011: € 0.7m), an increase over 2011 of 85.7%.

In the third quarter Kuju generated revenues of € 2.6m (2011: € 3.3m). Regarding profit Kuju was breaking even (EBIT 2012: € 0.0m) as the year before (2011: € 0.0m). For the first nine months of 2012 revenues at Kuju amounted to € 8.5m (2011: € 10.8m), representing a decrease of 7.2%. Kuju's EBIT amounted to € 0.5m (2011: € 1.2m).

Doublesix Digital Publishing (DDP) is currently undergoing a restructuring process.
EBIT for the first nine months of 2012 amounted to € -0.2m (2011: € -0.7m).

As a result, the 2012 full year Catalis Group revenues are estimated at € 28.0m and the Group operating EBIT between € 0.8m and € 1.2m as indicated before, a strong improvement over 2011 and 2010.


For further information on Catalis SE and its wholly owned subsidiaries, Testronic Labs, DDP and Kuju, please refer to www.catalisgroup.com, www.testroniclabs.com, www.doublesixgames.com and www.kuju.com. "

[the analyst] 27/11/2012 15:57

"Our webinars last week talked a lot about creating content. So here's some advice on creating good video content, fresh off the press!"

[the analyst] 27/11/2012 15:57

SocialGO
16 hours ago
Join us this Wednesday, 28th Nov, for a live 30 minute Q&A session. Starts at 8.30am PST | 10.30am CST | 11.30am EST | 4.30pm BST.

REGISTER HERE:

Learn how to make the most of your site via an interactive online session with video and screen-sharing!

[the analyst] 27/11/2012 15:56

Norbus,

You were asking about whether they are developing functionality required to succeed.

Unfortunately, my guess is that SocialGO are putting very little energy into developing the product right now. I say that just from looking at past performance of the Board (they don't seem to know what they need to do) along with the cash situation (neither SocialGO or Catalis seem to have much cash). But perhaps Catalis have a few developers working on it?

I was looking back at my notes from a meeting in 2010, where I was told by the Board that mobile was being worked on and would be released in 2011. They raised a lot of money, so should have developed at least basic mobile options by now. I'm not talking apps, but just basic mobile webpages allowing streams to be read easily on tablets and phones, with easy instant uploading of pictures, comments, chat etc. Just the basics.

Alas, it was an example of lip-service at its worst. Despite raising all that cash, they didn't develop this necessary functionality to make the product a success. Judging by their results rns, it turns out that if they had developed what they said they would, they would have won some major deals by now. They must be kicking themselves.

As WT points out, the goodwill has been squandered with false promises. That applies to both the customers and the investors.

They do, finally, seem to be working harder on the marketing and social front. Marie Steinthaler did a great job with the online meetings a couple of weeks ago. Just a shame nobody attended. Tomorrow, they are doing a 30 minute live Q&A for users. Hopefully, it has a better response.

I do really hope I am wrong and they are working hard on developing the product, getting it into shape. I guess we will find out sooner or later...


ps - sorry for the late reply, been away.

[stevn] 27/11/2012 14:44

Down to 0.17p, am I missing something? (i.e. SGO lost that lucrative contract securing the business), just picked up some more, 357036 at 0.25 which would appear cheap in the scheme of things...

[dodge city] 27/11/2012 11:27

These guys are not so Dim.

"Turnover has leapt from £400,000 in year one to £1.5 million in 2010 and £4.9 million in 2011. In the last financial year to June 2012, it was £12 million."

[dodge city] 27/11/2012 11:24

Dusseldorf.
You seem to be suggesting that when it comes to looking after number one, Dim isn't quite as Dim as he seems.

[dusseldorf] 27/11/2012 11:01

I don't believe the current business will survive, nor I believe does the shareholder. The movement of shares by the major holder perhaps is to claw back potentially 40% of their value through the tax system in the SIPP (offsetting the cost), whilst releasing 100% of value in CGT environment.

The type of move means he is able to release £102,000 outside of SIPP, by spending the equivalent of £60,000 in the SIPP (after you take into account up to 40% tax rebate in SIPP on the transaction value).

The net effect is realising £102k tax paid cash now, by taking a net £60k hit in his SIPP....

if he puts £45k of this £102k back into his SIPP he will once more be credited the 40% tax back, hey presto his SIPP is in equilibrium (ignoring Social Go shares) and he managed to release £55k cash from his holding without 'selling' a single share....

[jonc] 27/11/2012 10:28

This will be the next pump and dump vehicle.

[digger27] 27/11/2012 10:26

Looks like this goose is cooked early for Xmas!!!