R&q Insurance Share Discussion Threads

[topvest] 04/2/2011 20:51

Bought a few more of these this week. Cheap price at the moment. Good management team, so should be rewarding medium term.

[red ninja] 16/1/2011 16:37

Mmm sounds good, one day hopefully the share price will close that gap to NAV.

[envirovision] 15/1/2011 13:48

A detailed research report there. From the note:

The current share price of 91p puts them on a discount of 38% to NAV
(and over 10% to net tangible assets), a multiple of 9x current year
earnings, and only 6.7x forecast eps for 2011, and a yield of more than
8%.

Our estimate of a fair price currently and hence our
short/medium-term target for the shares is 146p, a 60% premium
to the current price, at which level the yield would still be 5%.

[rockafella2] 06/1/2011 22:23

New note -

[red ninja] 22/12/2010 16:21

TiredOldBroker,

A good explaination of the issues involved.

[envirovision] 22/12/2010 11:49

I understand your point. However had the company paid a dividend, I would have been astonished if something as illiquid as this would have fallen by the same amount or more than a declared dividend.

[tiredoldbroker] 22/12/2010 11:15

envirovision, I can see that the return of capital has got you quite steamed up but I wonder if you're seeing things the right way ?

Companies can pay a dividend (income), or make a capital repayment which may involve altering the number of shares in issue. But even for a dividend, the response of the stock market is normally to mark the share price down by the equivalent of the payment, at least in the short term. That;'s why XD dates are watched and why share prices fall on going XD.

So if RQIH had paid you a 2.9p divi, you'd still have your original 5861 shares but the price today could well be 88p, giving you cash in hand of £169.96 (divi) and shares worth £5157.68, total £5327.64. Instead, you now have 5673 shares @ 91p worth £5162.43 and you've had capital back of £169.96, total £5332.39.

Both of these figures are slightly less than your original £5392.12 investment. But that's a function of the stock market setting prices, which is outside the company's control. You could have had a dividend and the same number of shares at a lower price, or a capital repayment and fewer shares at a higher price. But the share price is not set by the company. I happen to think RQIH is undervalued and this is a (prolonged) buying opportunity - and that in due course, the share price will go up as the market reassesses the merits and intrinsic value of the company. But the market sets the share price, not the company. RQIH actually designed that 2.9p payout to give shareholders a choice of taking it as capital or income, which in certain tax situations could be useful, which is more than most companies do for their shareholders. I can't help but feel that you've not quite grasped the situation and understood it fully. You may not like the current share price, but that's a function of the market, not the company.

[envirovision] 22/12/2010 10:28

Red Ninja, they did not in effect pay any dividend at all, what are you talking about? Shareholders had a part of their shareholding cancelled at a discount to market value.

I had a holding of 5861 shares at 92p per share. £5392.12 total. The payment I had from Randal Quilter was £169.96. I now have just 5673 shares worth £5219.16.

I have value wise £172.96 worth of shares less now. In effect I got worse than "Nothing" I ended up with a negative return, I am worse off. In otherwords instead of Randal Quilter paying me a dividend, I ended up having to pay them.

This is not as you say "in effect by return of capital"

I know im not being a bit thick here, I have the number in front of me now. also you say "you were not devalued as your share of the company was not diluted" However the fact is I have less shares now.

I think we can safely say that that was a shareholder rip off. Any company which does this kind of thing to its shareholders should be treated with a large degree of caution IMO

[red ninja] 21/12/2010 16:55

Envirovision,

They paid a dividend in effect by return of capital linked with a capital consolidation announced on the 18th of August.

Next divi should be around March next year.

The capital consolidation was announced as a one off at the time, but you were not devalued as your share of the company was not diluted....

[envirovision] 21/12/2010 13:25

Does anyone know when or if they are likely to pay a dividend as the last one was skipped and they have been unable to provide any prediction or real guidance on future payments.

Also, does anyone think they are likely to further devalue shareholders equity again via capital re-organisation?

[lord gnome] 21/12/2010 12:08

It was drawn to my attention when another of my holdings, SDV, revealed that it had made an investment. It had, or appears to have, all the attributes that I look for. Low PE, high yield and a good discount to NAV. It appears to have suffered from the legal case and needs to prove that it can deliver in order to win back friends in the market. The only fly in the ointment that I can see is that the last divi was paid by a convoluted return of capital.

[18bt] 21/12/2010 11:57

Patience is the name of the game for this one. Has made some strategic moves which will be recognised at some point to go with the high yield.

[red ninja] 20/12/2010 23:57

Evening Lord G., some of us are still breathing, Growth Investor rated this a longterm buy and so it seems ..

[lord gnome] 20/12/2010 15:21

Afternoon all. If anyone is left alive on here, I have just decided to join you with a first purchase. Not showing on LSE, but may be on Plus or wherever.

[labatie] 19/11/2010 09:05

I'd be interested to know the company's response when you approached them to make your point

[envirovision] 15/11/2010 09:06

Well i thought it would have been pretty simple to work out if they are making a payment and consolodating the shares at the same time theres no benifit.


Lets use my example, I had a holding with TD Waterhouse of 5861 shares at 92p per share. £5392.12 total.

The payment I had was £169.96

but I now have just 5673 shares worth £5219.16 (assuming 92p)

I have value wise £172.96 worth of shares less now, so I am infact worse off.

Infact dont forget that the shares they have stolen from me also had stamp duty paid and a proportion of dealing cost commisions, so infact its a little bit more than the £172.96 worse off....and i am not accounting for the fact the bid fell to 90.5p either.

Jeez, not only is this NOT a return of money, its not a dividend or payment of any sort, this is infact a NEGATIVE RETURN.

Now can you clarify your argument of any yield of any sort please? or am i a effing idiot.

[labatie] 15/11/2010 07:57

Envirovision

As far as I can see, the co declared a dividend of 7p last year and are anticipating a rise this year.

They paid an interim through the issue of B shares which shareholders could elect to receive either as income or as capital.

Can you clarify the basis of your argument of nil yield please?

[18bt] 11/11/2010 07:08

From Insurance Times:

Randall & Quilter launches MGA for UK SME

10 November, 2010

Former HSBC director James Wheddon to lead the MGA in the UK; Canada MGA also launched

Randall & Quilter (R&Q) is launching a UK managing general agency, headed up by a former HSBC Insurance Brokers director.

The MGA is called R&Q Commercial Risks Services Limited, and will underwrite commercial combined, liability, property owners and package insurance products to a selected brokers in London and the regions. Capacity is provided by a European insurer.

James Wheddon, who was previously responsible for the creation of the commercial division at HSBC Insurance Brokers Intermediary Marketing Practice, leads the MGA.

R&Q is also launching R&Q Risk Services Canada Limited, a commercial underwriter with capacity provided by three Lloyd's syndicates.

It will underwrite professional liability and management liability coverage, including companion commercial general liability, focusing on both individual accounts and schemes/programs.

R&Q Risk Services Canada is is headed up by Scott Saddington, who has worked in underwriting and management in Canada, the United States and Asia-Pacific, with AIG, Liberty International, Munich Re and Executive Risk.

[labatie] 08/11/2010 07:27

Encouraging news.

[18bt] 08/11/2010 07:18

Finally announcement of lloyd's turnkey capacity and new £60m syndicate. Will this move the shareprice??

[envirovision] 26/10/2010 12:05

I'm trying to work out that last corporate action. I was under the impression they paid a dividend here.

However at first sight it appears they paid out a few pence to me whilst taking away a few of my shares.

So in effect I got nothing....or am i missing something?

[red ninja] 12/10/2010 12:49

CQS CONVERTIBLE AND QUANTITATIVE STRATEGIES fund have around 7% of RQIH, but appear to be selling according to the recent RNSes. I wonder if they'll drop the price to sell more to PIs or attempt to sell to another fund....

[envirovision] 15/9/2010 16:18

and a bit of volume today for a change, could this be a turn around in the share price. I know there was a bit of an overhand from the end of July, but at this rate its going to be cleared soon. GLA.

[simon gordon] 15/9/2010 11:47

Small cluster of director buying, new acquisitions, fundie interest, decent yield.