Patientline Share Discussion Threads

[marben100] 31/3/2008 11:17

price monitoring extension is just a technical matter relating to the LSE's closing auction. The closing auction period, normally 5 mins from ~16:30-16:35, is automatically extended by a further 5 mins when the final auction price is more than a preset distance from previous prices.

[momentos] 30/3/2008 23:10

As stated many times before, the only reason we are still here is a technicality.

As long as operating income is positive the banks, who own the company in reality will continue to sweat the assets. The moment it turns negative, then goodbye.

They know their loans are knackered, they are just holding on to get as much back as possible before the firesale (=0 for shareholders).

Dont buy. Ever. Ever. Ever. Recovery is over 50m pounds away and it aint going to happen.

[the_professor] 30/3/2008 18:37

what's a price monitoring extension?

[marben100] 29/3/2008 12:04

Hi cfb2,

What the government could and, in my opinion, should have done is to broker a deal to display patient records onto the Patientline terminals as a method of rejuvenating the company.

This was always Patientline's plan and they had been led to believe that this would happen - and some pilot projects were started. The government failed to deliver and hence Patientline were left between a rock and a hard place on call charges. I must admit, though, that I was a bit shocked to learn a couple of years ago that PTL's older terminals were not really capable of delivering that service - so they needed adequate profits, which never materialised, to justify replacing the older units. Fortunately that knowledge (gained through attending their AGM and touring their site), enabled me to get out at that time and reduce my losses.

Regards,

Mark

[cfb2] 29/3/2008 02:49

palwing: I'm afraid this company really is bust. One year ago to this day PTL stated that they were £80m in debt and only had enough money left to operate for the next 12 months. They've rearranged their charges and debt but it's only shuffling the deckchairs or, as doctors like to say, it's circling the drain.

I believe the reason it's still trading is because it's effectively a government PFI project and would be an embarrassment for it to foreclose. I would be surprised to hear that gentle pressure hadn't been applied to control the timing of the banks calling the loans; I don't expect it to survive much past the next election.

For the last four years Patientline has been underfunding their 75,000 installed systems due to lack of profit and consequently lack of investment (terminals have stopped working and the card dispensers often don't work). What the government could and, in my opinion, should have done is to broker a deal to display patient records onto the Patientline terminals as a method of rejuvenating the company. A £100m investment in Patientline is peanuts compared to the cost of running the NHS. As a comparison the original NHS IT project budget was £6.2bn (I heard that recently it had increased to £12.5bn).

I've personally used Patientline in the last 3 years to contact friends and family in hospital and I'm delighted by the service. It's considerably cheaper and quicker than driving to the hospital and paying for parking (assuming I can find a parking space). I've also credited their terminals with money to enable them to watch TV during their traumatic stay.

For those people complaining about the cost of the system, I'm sure they'll also be the first to complain that nobody answers the ward telephone (because that's what Patientline is likely to be replaced by). I'd say it's not in the public's interest to let it collapse. A hatchet job has been done on this company by the media because it's an easy target.

Long term the model of the NHS providing free everything is the road to ruin. The government has long realised that fringe items will cost and you get what you pay for.

CFB

[palwing] 28/3/2008 18:10

Is this share starting to show some vital signs again? Or is it the last gasps?

The longer this survives, the more I can see some people taking a gamble. Money to be made here if the spread stays decent enough.

[praipus] 27/3/2008 09:28

ADVFN the above johnsmith7 is a spam post please delete.

[praipus] 19/3/2008 13:55

Emotive stuff. Though service availability and charging model can be changed comparitively easily. The management seem very honest based on what I've read concerning the funding/debt issues impact on shareholder value. At least they have commercial outlook without that they would have gone years ago.

The management are worth backing from an honesty point of view alone IMHO. The strange thing is Gordon Brown gives £56 billion to Building Societies that make mistakes. Wereas desperately ill people being provided with some form of comfort or entertainment when they need it get left to fend for themselves.

So a good JV partner, some strategic marketing, some positive PR and the shareprice could rocket IMHO.

[jasper65] 19/3/2008 12:10

I dont care about the TV service ( £3 per day is fine ), its the phone charges. You dial up and are paying to listen to a message at an extortionate rate and then the line drops out...thats what i mean by disgusting.

[praipus] 19/3/2008 11:55

The possibility for a link up or JV with health insurer's the government and the private healthcare sector seem endless. Wonder when we will hear more.

[spud gun] 14/3/2008 10:30

jasper

SIMPLE solution, don't bloody use the PTL services!

If they were the rip off merchants you claim they are then they wouldn't be losing money.

I know something; if I was in hospital long term i'd pay as much as it took to get a bedside tv to relieve the boredom.

PS £3 a day is hardly a criminal charge, with the money saved on food alone your bill is covered.

[marben100] 14/3/2008 10:25

A large part of PTL's problem, as Jasper's post illustrates, is that many people think they should get something for nothing. The only way that can happen is if the £100m+ PTL invested in kit & systems were paid for out of taxpayers' money.

[praipus] 14/3/2008 09:53

jasper65 so how and what should they charge for their services in your opinion?

Personally I'm very greatful to patientline they and the hospital contributed to making and extremely difficult part of life very much more bearable.

Able minded patients with terminal illnesses need every tool they can to keep a sanguin mind. A feel of being connected to the oustside world is a positive benefit. Staving off a dive into distructive self pitty essential.

Nurses do a fantastic job but at the end of the day only the patient can deal with mental game. Patientline facilites help.

[pjh35] 14/3/2008 08:06

The thing I do not understand (among many) is that how are they still actually trading, what with their share price, how much the firm is worth. Is there some news coming?

[praipus] 13/3/2008 22:04

Thanks Mark AKA Marben100,

All very clear thank you.

Scribbler101

Havent examined the charges too closely. I do recall grumbling but mainly when the patient couldnt get access to it for some reason or other. It was out of action for a few days while the hospital was waiting for an engineer apparently.

The revenues seem strong and the debt small when you look at how much of our money Gordon Brown's given to the incompetent at Northern Rock!

I wonder if PTL signed up a few more hospitals or found a rich Middle Eastern partner and included a few more nursing homes (ageing population etc) things might improve dramatically.

I wouldnt be surprised if someone see's a way to extract more share holder value and a way to profitability.

[scribbler101] 13/3/2008 19:04

priapus - did you not find £1 for the first inward minute a bit steep?

the fundamental problem is that they are not raising anything like enough income to pay interest on their borrowings.

I have never seen the original business plan. Does anyone know what prices and usage levels they assumed?

[marben100] 13/3/2008 18:53

Can someone tell me what the fundamental problem is with PTL's business?

IMO the problems have been as follows:

1. It has cost more to run the service than had been expected originally
2. When PTL's service was originally planned, mobile phones were a) not as widespread; and b) much more expensive than they are now. It was not expected that they would be widely used in hospitals. You probably remember the awful phone & TV service that was available in hospitals before PTL's kit came along.
3. PTL has had a terrible press with accusations of a "rip-off" service, as mobile phone services have become much cheaper and widely available and (reasonable) doubt has been cast on the validity of bans on mobiles being enforced in hospitals. How they can be accused of "ripping off" customers, when they have never made a profit is beyond me.
4. As a result of 2 and 3 usage of PTL's units & service by patients and relatives has been steadily falling, resulting in falling revenues per unit.
5. To cap it all, PTL installed their kit in many wards which hospitals then decided to close, due to funding shortages, resulting in the expensive kit lying idle. Moreover, I understand that they were originally promised that they would get additional revenues from use of their kit within the new planned NHS IT infrastructure. This never materialised.
6. In order to finance the purchase and installation of a lot of kit and infrastructure, PTL has large borrowings and their net revenues now barely cover the interest on those borrowings, let alone repayment of capital. It appears that the banks are about to foreclose and run the business down to recoup as much as they can from remaining revenues, without making any further investment.
7. The final nail in the coffin is that much of PTL's kit is, IMO, now obsolete based on very old technology.

An object lesson in investment.

HTH,

Mark

[praipus] 13/3/2008 14:51

A terminally ill relative and I use to use this service to communicate. Its benefits to me and the patient were immesurable. Modern life means its not allways possible to be at someones side. PTL's services were excellent.

Can someone tell me what the fundamental problem is with PTL's business?

Would a rights issue or tie up with another information provider help?

Could the same network be used by the hospital for patient information or stand the implementaion of a bedside web cam set up?

Perhaps even enabling Dr's from other hospitals or countries to review patients for second opinion etc remotely?

[starplus] 13/3/2008 12:48

Just to let you know that I was at Northwick Park Hospital last week and all the PatientLine boxes have been taken out.

[momentos] 06/3/2008 00:49

Any leverage is totally with the banks now, albeit technically subject to shareholders approval.

So subject to a very long shot ptl gets nationalised at 1p per share!

[scribbler101] 06/3/2008 00:06

Totally dissimilar to NRK!

This company IS bust. VERY VERY bust.

It does share a degree of government responsibility for its problems. But it is not worth government expropriating it and there are no votes in it.

Though for a cost to the NHS barely measureable it could be acquired on terms that would please shareholders and lenders; provide patients with a useful facility; and allow testing of its other capabilities without a cost barrier for old asset use.

All FAR FAR too sensible for HMG.

[richardbees] 05/3/2008 20:59

Hello Scribble....not dissimilar to nrk?