Lionheart Share Discussion Threads

[hupper] 20/2/2004 19:16

Me too , glad its nearly over and have something to show for it !

[tiltonboy] 20/2/2004 08:48

140p per share in this morning.

tiltonboy

[8 ball] 15/2/2004 00:26

So it looks like £1.57 per share.

I bought on the last day of trading expecting a quick return.
Well we had to wait longer than I had expected thanks to the pension fund, who were badly advised.

But at the end of the day it was better than money in the bank.

MKP is another cash shell with plenty of cash if anyone fancies a similar punt?

[ocarina2] 10/2/2004 09:31

MR Value
Thanks for that as you say no "wheyyheyy!!"

[ben value] 09/2/2004 09:14

More from our friend Mr Shak:-

"I can confirm that the deal was officially finalised on Thursday 6th February and the court gave the liquidators (KPMG) permission to distribute the bulk of the funds available to shareholders. After speaking to KPMG, I'm assured that we can expect payment in the next ten working days and that the first distribution will not be less than 140p per share. As I mentioned earlier, the payment would have been greater if not for a late breaking claim by an individual pensioner who, it is believed, cannot have obtained legal advice over the strength of his case. His claim has been rejected and we await to see if he makes an appeal to the court within the next couple of weeks. For what it's worth, I don't think he will unless he's crackers. There will almost certainly be an additional 15-17p coming in due course, giving a total return of 155-157p per share. For anyone buying at about 130p, this gives a return of about 20% in less than a year which is a pretty good result in the end.

As most people who followed this stock know, I bought nearly 8% of the company, mostly just prior to it's volountary liquidation, in the hope of making a quick turn at very little risk. However, whilst I've made the required cash that I always expected to, I'm afraid I must desist from giving the required "wheyyheyy!!" that I originally envisaged. The reason? Risk. Basically, this story actually went sour the moment that the £8-10 million pension claim was made against Lionheart's assets. The fact that the claim was baseless is irrelevant since it held up the liquidation for about six months and changed the potential outcome to a total loss, no matter how unlikely. It just goes to show how nothing in the stockmarket is certain, no matter how good things look on paper. Suppose the thing had got to court and the presiding judge had a particular dislike for capitalist shareholders and was just about to retire himself? Who can say how long this could have dragged on with appeals and counter appeals ensuing? There's always a risk, no matter how small, and the possibility of a daft claim coming out of the woodwork was one I missed. Every time I picked up the phone to buy £100K of stock, I thought I was making £20K in profit. I did in the end but not with the risk profile that I originally envisaged and that's what is stopping me from congratulating myself too much.

On a final note, a word should be reserved for the pension group making the claim. Eventually, they settled an £8-10million claim for eighty grand. Does this mean that there is a business to be had in making nuisance claims against companies in volountary liquidation? Hardly. They were probably entitled to £40K anyway and their costs will have quickly eaten up the other £40K "won" as part of the settlement and probably more. I genuinely feel sorry for the pensioners that they represent.

I've learned two valuable lessons from this saga:

1. Don't bet the farm on one share.
2. Don't have a pension controlled by faceless non-entities.

WShak"

[geraldus] 02/2/2004 20:35

More good work BV.

[realcooltrader] 29/1/2004 08:38

BV, many thanks for the update.

[8 ball] 28/1/2004 23:59

Good to see an end at last.
I bought in on the last day of trading at 1.25 so I am happy.

The pension fund as a lot to answer for IMHO, the only one's to gain is their lawyers.

That's not unusual.

Just a shame us shareholders had to lose out, all in all I think it has turnd out well.

[mjcrockett] 28/1/2004 21:53

Ben,

Thank you for the info - it sounds very promising. 157 would be wonderful.

MJ

[ben value] 28/1/2004 16:59

More from our very helpful shareholder from motley fool:


"Well, it's been a gruelling journey but it looks like it is finally over for Lionheart shareholders. The Pension Group that has been holding up the payout for the last six months is in the process of settling their claim. Remember how much it was for? £8-£10 million, the majority of Lionheart's cash pile.

By the 7th Feb, the liquidators must deposit in their bank account the grand total of £83,000 by way of settlement. The costs that they've incurred will mean that it is doubtful that any of this nonsense was worthwhile for them. The wording of the settlement has been broadly agreed and is being finalised by the lawyers as we speak. In the immediate days after the payment, the first of two distributions will be made to LNT shareholders. There are still some loose ends to tie up with respect to tax, the lease liability and a fresh claim from a individual disgruntled pensioner but nothing to worry about. The individual's claim has already been rejected and it is thought, by the nature of his letter, that he cannot have obtained legal advice.

Obviously, costs have been driven up thanks to the Pension Group's actions but there is still plenty of cash left for those that bought into this share. I have been assured by the liquidators that the initial distribution will not be less than 140p, with a further chunk to come. In total, I've been told that we can expect 157p, though that figure is merely an approximation. Since most people got in at 130p or less, that's a pretty decent result, even allowing for the delay.

I'll be writing on this again once we've got our first wedge of cash in a couple of weeks time. In the meantime, I've already written to the liquidators, KPMG, and thanked them for their work on this. Mike Tapin and Jeremy Spratt have done an excellent job on behalf of shareholders.

WShak"

[geraldus] 14/1/2004 22:38

Good work BV.

[8 ball] 12/1/2004 20:33

Thanks for the update Ben

[hupper] 12/1/2004 20:27

Hope he's right ! Thanks Ben

[realcooltrader] 12/1/2004 17:28

Excellent news if true, thanks BV.

[ben value] 12/1/2004 17:17

A very helpful shareholder posted a message on Motley Fool today with a bit of good news which may be of interest:-

"I will say that things are progessing very well and we can expect a resolution to this whole matter within a couple of weeks. Yup, you heard me right, I said weeks. Furthermore, I strongly believe that the final payout will be significantly better than my own worst case of 147p per share. I am in constant touch with the liquidators and can assure you that there is nothing at all to worry about."

[nightpoacher] 19/11/2003 12:12

I agree with you StewJames. Even though I would really like the cash back, I think they should take a very hard line with the Pension trustees, even threatening to sue them personally if that is possible.

Best regards

NP

[skyship] 19/11/2003 11:29

Shareholder circular from the liquidators received today.

It provides a good summary of the three outstanding issues delaying payout:

1. Lionheart Pension Scheme ("The Scheme") - Following counsel's advice the liquidators summarily rejected the pension trustees' claim, however the trustees have lodged an appeal for initial hearing on 26th November. Thereafter it is likely to be 6 months before PRELIMINARY issues would be heard in court. The liquidators are "continuing to correspond with the trustees' advisors with a view to achieving an earlier and less costly resolution of this matter."

2. Croydex X guarantee: LNT have received £200,000 in full and final settlement of any claim LNT might make should the pension trustees win any claim from 1). above

3. Landlord claim: This small contingent liability is reducing as Croydex continue occupation of factory/office premises and continue to pay the rent. The lease expires Dec'04; and it looks increasingly likely that any liability will soon be extinguished.

4. Environmental claim: Relates back to sale of a division back in 1996. Indemnity of max £350,000 expies Dec'03; and no liability is expected.

Final sentence states:

"I regret that until there is certainty over the maximum amount of the Scheme's claim, I remain unable to comment on the quantum and timing of distributions to shareholders. I will, however, write again when there are material developments to report."

=================================================

My view is that KPMG are doing a reasonable job on our behalf; and my GUESS is that we will end up paying the trustees a small sum to withdraw any claim. How small is small? Somewhere in the region of £1/2m-£1.0m perhaps. Though it could be preferable for KPMG to countersue the trustees for frivolous litigation.

Nevertheless if we do pay out £750,000, then that would = c.7p / share. For a speedy resolution it could be a price worth paying.

[p-m] 14/11/2003 00:12

drag on.. thats an under statement.. still I suppose something sometime is better than nothing never...

[tiltonboy] 12/11/2003 20:08

Hupper,

Highly unlikely. Until the liquidator can sort out the pension claim fiasco we are unlikely to get anything. These matters can drag on, and I wouldn't expect anything until the second half of next year.

tiltonboy

[hupper] 12/11/2003 19:51

Will we get any money before Christmas ?

[fm27] 31/8/2003 17:52

thanks for the links StewJames, very informative. Lets hope this whole thing gets sorted sooner rather than later. GOOD LUCK all

[ocarina2] 28/8/2003 07:59

Yep me to, thank you for the info StewJames.

[skyracer] 28/8/2003 07:29

Thanks StewJames

[hindsight] 27/8/2003 19:37

Thankyou for the info StewJames
H