Gw Pharmaceuticals Share Discussion Threads

[randb01] 01/11/2016 13:01

Cauchmer

Would not wish to give you any advice on holding/selling but just a word of warning in case you are not aware. I held a whole heap of EIS shares until recently. Seemingly as I transferred other GW shares into my ISA, it came to light via HMRC that they have been working on a 'first in/first out' basis since 2008? This means that if you have carried out any GW trading for the last 16 years, these EIS shares may already have gone thanks to HMRC's sleight of hand. However you may wish to DYOR. Unfortunately I have lost my EIS benefits.

[nodding] 01/11/2016 12:59

Said a lot better by Wenger!

[nodding] 01/11/2016 12:58

I am going to convert all my shares. I may or may not trade some of them. I may or may not live long enough to see the takeover, but if I do not my exors will likely incur the conversion cost.

[wengerb] 01/11/2016 12:51

cauchmer. I'll convert all of mine to ADRs. The majority are held in TD Direct and the rest in a SIPP. As I understand it, if I do this by the qualifying date I do not incur any execution costs. If I then sell part of my holding or if the company is acquired, dollar denoted sums will appear in my account(s) and it will be up to me to try to find a way of converting those sums into sterling at the best possible rate.

If anyone waits until after the qualifying date to convert to ADRS then I believe costs are incurred.

If anyone should keep their shares as untradable AiM shares then they would face two options.

The first would be to make the more expensive transfer to ADRs if he/she ever wished to sell those AiM shares.

The second would be to wait for an agreed takeover. As an aside, I don't know if those AiM shares would continue to carry voting rights but, unless you owned millions, that's effectively immaterial. In the event of a takeover you'd be paid out but I don't know if anyone yets knows whether you'd receive payment in sterling or dollars. If it were sterling it would be at an exchange rate beyond the holder's control.

I don't see how by holding ADRs, someone who wishes to end up with a sterling denoted asset is any more exposed to sterling/dollar fluctuations than they are already.

I never forget that the AiM shares were at 40p when GWPH listed on Nasdaq. Without that listing, in spite of the crucial advances that GWP has made in developing the potential treatment for various types of epilesy, surely no one believes that an AiM only GWP would be worth what it is today.

That GWP has grown hugely in value is thanks to the liquidity on Nasdaq and the gung-ho investment attitude of US institutions.

[cauchmer] 01/11/2016 10:54

As well as quite a few held in my Sipp with AJ Bell, which MUST be converted into ADRs (or sold), I still hold £150k worth of my original EIS investment in GW Pharma from year 2000.

Frankly, I'm at a loss as to whether to continue to hold them in unlisted UK shares or to convert this month to ADRs. Either way I would be exposed to costs and the vagiaries of exchange rate.

Anyone in a similar position that has decided which path to follow, please?

[neilrr] 31/10/2016 17:04

Yes, apologies. TD Waterhouse is now called TD Direct.

[future financier] 31/10/2016 16:44

nodding - I suspect that if you don't want to convert all of your shares into ADRs then TD is unlikely to be able to hold the balance as they will be unlisted. So you would have to take them as certificated shares which is fine so long as they are held in an individual (non SIPP) account.


We still await TDs guidance .........

[nodding] 31/10/2016 15:43

Cheers etarip. Capital at risk?

[etarip] 31/10/2016 15:29

nodding:

When I Googled 'TD Waterhouse' this came up.
TDDirectInvesting.co.uk - TD Waterhouse UK
Is Now TD Direct Investing. Same Great Service. Capital At Risk.
Share Trading Account · Online SIPP Account · Stocks & Shares ISA

see also:

[nodding] 31/10/2016 14:51

Thanks for that neilrr.

I am with TD Direct. Is this the same as TD Waterhouse?

I have just bought a few more to bring my total up to a figure exactly divisible by twelve, and will phone TD tomorrow to see if the conversion requires me to do something. I am thinking that I might not convert all as I do not see myself trading that many shares.

[neilrr] 31/10/2016 09:38

From TDW Corporate Actions page.


Stock- GW PHARMACEUTICALS

Event Type - Corporate Action Status Update

Description

GW Pharmaceuticals Plc has announced its intention to cancel the admission of its Ordinary shares from trading on Alternative Investment Market (AIM) on 5th December 2016. GW Pharmaceuticals Plc will retain its U.S. listing on the NASDAQ Stock Exchange of American Depositary Receipts (ADRs) under ticker symbol GWPH. The announcement includes conversion of the Ordinary shares into ADRs. Please note we are verifying the full details and a corporate action including the options available to you will be dispatched shortly.

[thecrock] 28/10/2016 23:28

Unfortunately GWP is finished in AIM.....get out while you can.....

[owenmo] 28/10/2016 22:53

Why is no one commenting on sale over past few days (latest to-day at late hour) of 3m. shares at around 800p. by GW Pharma Chairman (Guy)
See LSE website. Suggests good news is remote?

[pj84] 27/10/2016 20:52

I have received the following reply from Hargreaves Lansdown

"I am writing with regards to our recent telephone conversation.

I can confirm that ADRs can continue to be held in your Vantage SIPP after your shares de-list from AIM. We are, however, still waiting for confirmation from the Depositary that your GW Pharmaceuticals shares can be converted to ADRs. Once we have this information, we shall update our clients accordingly."

[masingi] 27/10/2016 17:33

Even more well done TD Waterhouse. If you buy the shares through their SIPP the two forms are not required! It's all done automatically.

My SIPP is now set up and running, took 30 minutes online. Top banana!

[nasdaqpat] 27/10/2016 14:50

Well done TD Waterhouse. I've just managed to Buy a small quantity of GWPH ADRs directly from Nasdaq. In order to do this I had to submit 2 forms electronically in order to be able to directly trade internationally.

[pj84] 27/10/2016 14:15

Thanks Masingi, I haven't got the confirmation in writing from HL yet, but got the impression they were in the process of dotting the i's and crossing the t's on their corporate action letter to GPW shareholders.

I only have one other direct US holding which are Verizon shares as a result of the Vodafone split and don't plan to regularly sell any US holdings and so will accept the exchange rate issue for the benefit of being able to continue to retain my GPW holding for the time being.

[masingi] 27/10/2016 13:57

Received just now from TD Direct:

Dear Mr XXXX

Further to your recent enquiry about the cancellation of GW Pharmaceuticals from trading on AIM on 5 December 2016 and the conversion of these shares to ADR's. We will be able to trade the ADR's under market code GWPH in our Trading accounts , SIPP accounts & Pension Trading Accounts.

I hope I've been able to resolve your enquiry to your satisfaction, however should you need to get back in touch for any reason, please do not hesitate. For our opening times refer to our website, details of which can be found below.

Kind regards,

Mike Welford | Customer Services | TD Direct Investing


...and breathe....

[masingi] 27/10/2016 13:50

Stop press:
I have just had confirmation by telephone from both TD Direct and HL that YES, GWPH ADRs can be held within their SIPP and the AIM delisting won't be a problem. Happy days.

I have asked for written confirmation by email and I will post that when it arrives.

Thanks to everyone for your help. Looks like I'm going to be a TD Direct customer.

[masingi] 27/10/2016 13:21

PJ84, I'm on the phone to HL now asking the same question. I've also emailed TD Direct for clarification. They are telling me yes!! Also waiting for written confirmation. One problem is the HL platform is Stirling only, so they will cane you on exchange rates when you buy or sell!

I have emailed TD Direct with the same question.

FF- I'll ask my tax advisor for legal clarification and try and get chapter and verse.

[pj84] 27/10/2016 12:56

Masingi I am currently waiting for HL to give me a written response confirming I can retain ADR's in my SIPP after the delisting from AIM and will update when I receive a response.

[future financier] 27/10/2016 12:52

masingi - I do not believe there is any HMRC restriction on holding an ADR in a SIPP - only the ISA where the lack of a listing for the Ords is relevant. In theory (from HMRC perspective) almost anything can go into a SIPP (other than Buy to Let properties!) whereas there are tight restrictions on ISA investments. It is purely a broker restriction that MAY cause a problem for SIPP investors.

[etarip] 27/10/2016 12:47

I can see why HL say ADRs cannot be held in an ISA but, why is their policy to extend that to a SIPP?

I believe that TDI do not take that view.

[masingi] 27/10/2016 12:38

FF- see post from Cauchmer, reposted below:

"26 Oct '16 - 20:40 - 8896 of 8915 0 0
TD sent me the following statement tonight:

" At present, it is our understanding that HMRC do not allow shares to be held in an ISA that do not have an underlying investment that is traded on a recognised exchange. Following it's delisting from AIM, the GW Pharmaceuticals ADRs will represent the underlying ordinary stock which will not be listed. Though the NASDAQ exchange is indeed recognised by HMRC, the underlying holding will be unlisted and as a result the ADRs will not be ISA eligible, as is our current understanding. It is our policy to apply the same requirement to any securities held within our SIPP accounts...."

Thanks again Justin."

You can buy or hold the ADRs, just not in a SIPP or ISA. This is because the underlying share -the ORD- still exists and is not tradeable on an exchange recognised by HMRC. How do Hargreaves Lansdowne get around this problem?

Whereas it's possible to transfer funds out of an ISA to continue holding ADRs in a simple trading account, this is not possible with a SIPP as nothing can be transferred out. Therefore it's a forced sale of both ADRs and ORDs that are held in a SIPP.