Bank Irel13.375 Discussion Threads

[montyhedge] 04/8/2023 10:10

Does that mean if passed at meeting and you voted yes, we will get 194 on 25th August.

[glavey] 04/8/2023 09:31

And, as an illustration of the Bank's train of thought, this is what they wrote in respect of the 12 percents...

"12% Euro Preference Stock"

"As the amount tendered by holders pursuant to the relevant Offer is less than 80% of the outstanding 12% Euro Preference Stock, the Preference Stock Offeror has not yet reached the threshold to compulsorily acquire the 12% Euro Preference Stock which was not tendered to it.

However, the Group intends to continue its efforts to acquire the remainder of the 12% Euro Preference Stock in order to retire that instrument entirely. The Group may, at its discretion, seek to acquire some or all of the remaining 12% Euro Preference Stock, including by way of open market purchases or launching another offer, or take other steps in respect of the 12% Euro Preference Stock. Any subsequent acquisitions will be subject to their own terms and conditions, which may differ from the terms and conditions of the Offer(s) in a number of respects, including but not limited to, that the price payable in respect of such subsequent acquisitions may differ from, be lower than or higher than the relevant Offer Price and may differ as to whether or not a payment in lieu of dividend amount is paid and on what terms."

[montyhedge] 04/8/2023 08:17

Yes, I'm happy.

[stemis] 03/8/2023 19:27

"As the total principal amount outstanding of the 13.375% Bonds tendered or voted pursuant to the relevant tender offer and consent solicitation exceeds two-thirds of the principal amount outstanding of the 13.375% Bonds, the proposed Bondholder meeting to consider the Extraordinary Resolution to insert an issuer call option into the conditions of the 13.375% Bonds will have sufficient quorum to proceed on 4 August 2023 (the "Meeting"). At least 75% of the Bondholders attending at the Meeting must vote in favour of the Extraordinary Resolution in order to be passed. As votes in favour of the resolution have been irrevocably cast by 88.65% (by principal amount outstanding) of those registered to attend or vote at the Meeting, the Group currently anticipates that the Extraordinary Resolution will be passed at the Meeting and accordingly that all of the 13.375% Bonds will be redeemed on 25 August 2023."

[stemis] 03/8/2023 13:35

I would have thought so

[damp seaweed] 03/8/2023 13:22

Yes I’ve been expecting an RNS. All quiet so far. I’m fairly confident that the vote will pass in favour of the proposal.

[stemis] 03/8/2023 09:00

Today is the announcement of the results of the tender, isn't it?

[miti 1000] 26/7/2023 13:49

mrf, tragedy of the commons? I'd eat you for breakfast.

[kirkie001] 26/7/2023 13:45

FWIW, I'm 90% certain I'm gong to tender mine. I have cash in my ISA account in any event, and if I tender and the price drops due to it not going through, I may well simply buy more to replace the ones I've tendered...

[my retirement fund] 26/7/2023 13:09

Tragedy of the commons! You seriously think you can cadh in, and yet these will be around in a few months to pick up. Jeez, I think too many people have been used to Cakeism over the last years of Tory rule and seriously believe it's how the world operates.

[miti 1000] 26/7/2023 12:10

mrf, sorry another turkey here .Voted yes, for my 50k shares .Would rather take the chance , I can pick up them lower at some point in next few months.

[my retirement fund] 24/7/2023 16:02

Many lower quality prefs moving ahead making the BOI's offer of just 7.1% at £1.88 looking like a very poor offer indeed now. Still with folk like Stemis around, no doubt they'll push it through - Turkeys voting for Christmas !

[glavey] 24/7/2023 12:07

Stemis, I get what you write but the difference (or inconsistency if you like) is that BOI is a perpetual Bond, whereas the point that MRF was making was concerning Preference Shares (Aviva AV.A, AV.B, et al.) and the issuer's ability to cancel at par, combined with them ceasing to qualify as Regulatory Capital from 2026. Hence MRF's argument that "BOI", has a lower 'risk' profile.

Whilst it is fair to note the previous Aviva fuss regarding their Prefs as setting a tacit understanding, a general principle, because of increasing interest rates etc. of late, the market values of Prefs have been moving nearer to par (some already touching) which would perhaps mitigate any perception of unfairness if cancelled at par. Whatever, the 2026 deadline (as well as tenders so far) and dividend rate must suggest some issuers would like them gone one way or another.

(As far as PIBS are concerned I note their hierarchical position and I understand that the 2026 issues of Regulatory Capital also apply, but I have not thought beyond that.)


It's not that I "don't like the tender". My perspective is just to consider the various 'risk', benefit and liquidity factors looking ahead, as it should be for anyone else.*(1) Having done so I find that, retained, BOI would be a pretty unique perpetual instrument in a potentially arid P/I investor space in a year or two's time. (Presently it even has Government tax policies on its side!!)

Which, as I post this, draws me to notice the board title once more: "Bank of Ireland - A share for Life ??"


*(1) Unfortunately, (and this is not aimed at anyone in particular, certainly not you) from comments posted here and elsewhere, it seems to me that many are not looking much beyond the end of their noses.

[stemis] 21/7/2023 15:30

Glavey,

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not suggesting BoI would likely screw over the rump. I'm arguing that you have to be consistent. If you are going to argue that the other financial institutions would (despite what happened to Aviva) take advantage of the opportunity to do it for relatively little gain, then it's inconsistent to argue that BoI wouldn't. Probably none of them would. Lloyds have already undertaken a tender at a premium to the face value, rather than attempted to screw their holders.

You don't like the tender. Fine. Others (I'd suggest the majority) are probably going to accept. It just means they have a different view. It doesn't mean they are idiots who don't know or understand what they are doing.

My retirement fund,

Don't worry. I'll get over it.

[my retirement fund] 21/7/2023 15:07

SteMIS, I had you as a knowledgeable chap and used to hold you in some esteem as posters go, especially given the quality of many in recent years. I'm afraid that image has been dashed. Good luck to you.

[glavey] 19/7/2023 17:23

[940]
SteMiS,

But a third party is 'buying' the preference shares (sic) [bonds], viz. "tender any and all of their Bonds for purchase by Elgin Securities DAC (the "Purchaser") for cash".

Although it could be that what I can glean is superseded, I found no evidence to suggest that Elgin are owned or controlled by The Governor and Company of the Bank of Ireland. (Instead I would think that they are contracted.)








Hence the thought of "Elgin" calling an EGM and forcing through a redemption of the rump at a lower level seems to me unlikely, perhaps flawed.


Returning to your original point. Whilst I 'get your drift' let me reason the alternative that should the Bank fail to get the 75% vote in favour and be unable to redeem the bonds leaving Elgin sat with a (majority) holding, by far the simplest way to convince enough hold-outs to surrender their bonds sufficient to 'get them over the line' would be to come back and 'make them an offer which they could not refuse', i.e. an improved offer.

[hindsight] 19/7/2023 12:37

Updated pref spreadsheet and now offer is net loss

[stemis] 19/7/2023 12:06

AIUI "Elgin" are not owned or controlled by The Governor and Company of the Bank of Ireland - do you agree?

No I don't. BoI clearly aren't undertaking this exercise so some third party can buy the preference shares. By the way, DAC (as in Elgin Securities DAC) means Designated Activity Company i.e. a company set up for a specific and restricted purpose.

[glavey] 19/7/2023 10:49

OK, let's just go along with that thesis for a moment. AIUI "Elgin" are not owned or controlled by The Governor and Company of the Bank of Ireland - do you agree? In what organisation would Elgin "call an EGM"? Can they "force through a redemption" as they are not the issuer of the bonds?

[stemis] 19/7/2023 08:51

It's as kinbasket explained

[glavey] 19/7/2023 07:16

[932]

Thank you kinbasket, but my reply and question was to SteMiS and specific to his point: "...who's to say that having acquired a significant proportion of BOI, Elgin don't subsequently call an EGM and use their dominant holding, to force through a redemption of the rump at a lower level..."

Hopefully SteMiS will explain...

[stemis] 18/7/2023 17:28

They changed their mind because of the poor publicity it brought them (par redemption 'may' have been legal but certainly wasn't reasonable). But if you think that doesn't matter to financial institutions with preference shares then presumably it doesn't matter to BoI wrt the rump of BOI...

[montyhedge] 18/7/2023 16:45

Payday getting closer, the big question where do we put our dosh.

[my retirement fund] 18/7/2023 16:25

The fact of the matter is had they proceeded with cancellation of the preference shares, the FSA would not have had a problem. The problem was they changed their mind! The bottom line is, should the preference shares be cancelled, it would be a perfectly legal and reasonable action!