Work Service Share Discussion Threads

[coolen] 16/9/2014 23:02

Mathew: smithie is correct, this is a classic case of a lazy stockbroker.

Those quotes were merely computer-generated !

If the broker had dialled Winterflood, the sole marketmaker, you would have got somewhere, probaly wearing that block of shares on offer at 61p !

Brokers and jobbers even have their own private telephone exchange, so there are only 4 digits for a broker to dial. Pure laziness !

I further agree with Smithie that a complaint is justified. I would go further and suggest that the Investors Chronicle might make an article out of your experience.

You could further stir things and copy the WSEL directors into any letters of complaint.

[smithie6] 16/9/2014 08:25

nice to see the share price up again....2 times recently....
and imo still at large discount to NAV

[smithie6] 16/9/2014 08:24

Mathew

Can I interest you to copy and paste your post and to send by e-mail to here

(if what you posted is true then imo then ISDX needs to have words with the MM.....
quoting you 70p for 5000 shares when price was 62p....
but to then allow a trade of 5500 shares at 61p (one assumes a buy)

indicates imo that the MM conduct might have broken the ISDX rules...

(if "we" dont complain or inform regulators...then we cant expect any action)


[e-mail] (Regulation)
[e-mail] (Market Supervision)

[topvest] 12/9/2014 20:38

Yes, annual report this year should be pretty positive. Doing well and hopefully Hartim is also recovering.

[smithie6] 12/9/2014 14:46

NBI share price holding up well imo after large % rise over prev. months...

fingers crossed for the H1 results soon


and Creston is edging up....to also help the Western NAV

[smithie6] 12/9/2014 14:42

imho.....if want to buy any I would suggest to try to buy at say 2.5p above the selling price....

all or nothing to avoid a stupid broker charge for buying just 1000 shares

so ...there was a sell I think at 57p.....
+2,5p = 59,5p

MM would make around 4-5%
thats enough on a fill order imo

might have to just let the order sit ...and wait to see if there is a seller one day....
if there is ....

Noting that MMs like to buy and sell.....to take a cut....
they normally dont want to just buy or just sell....


they will take the best offer....
if no other buyers.....and has any sellers....then buy orders with spreads within the full price shoud get filled imo...since the MM wont want to sit holding the shares...
-*---

if look at buys from X months ago...of 10k shares.....they bt. at around 3p above the selling price....ie. inside the spread...

normally a sign of someone who has rough idea what they are doing....whereas a PI might pay the full spread...
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the reverse applies imo when selling....
make the MMs work !...and trim their margins !

[coolen] 11/9/2014 23:29

Hi Mathew. There should be no problem dealing in up to 10,000 shares if you ask your broker to place a limit order at 62p with the marketmaker (aka "jobber").

If it was me, I'd instruct the broker to "leave the order with the jobber at 60p for 4 hours" and then judge the jobber's response thereafter.

I'd be surprised if you did not deal in at least a sensible part of the order.

Let us know how you get on.

[oooff] 11/9/2014 17:09

It is possible to buy WSE shares indirectly.
LFI London finance + investment are linked to WSE and own around 44% of WSE shares and able to buy online.
They are on a discount to asset value like WSE, but their other holdings may not be quite as good as WSE, but does offer increased diversification of companies.
I found that I could not trade WSE online with my broker this year, when I had no difficulty online previously.
Have been able to buy LFI online.

[mathewawood] 11/9/2014 13:41

Any idea how to buy these at the ask price of 62p?

My broker said only 500 available, thats £310!! Cant trade these on-line only with a phone order costing £50. Complete waste of time and research.

[smithie6] 25/8/2014 20:07

btw
hope you are not suggesting to sell something doing well....with excellent track record of growth in EPS and turnover per share....to buy say ...

Creston !

with a track record of no growth and showing a loss for Western shareholders after 14 yrs if include inflation !...cheaper does not always mean better...

[smithie6] 24/8/2014 21:18

...ref. your opinion about more sales of NBI shares...

have to agree to disagree on that one.

as to why....more info in the referenced article/notes

(one key item being.....Middle East....I dont think you are aware...
and probability of acquisition before end of fin. year.....mkt tends to like NBI acquisitions !
maybe if we ever meet at an AGM...maybe you owe me a beer for that first point !...je je )

(and also that amount of kit now in Spore, Middle East and Auz. all appear to be about the same now..NBI is a diff. beast than it was ...bigger..growing fast.....whereas most NBI holders probably think that Auz. has much more since we are so used to the Tasman story now....and havent kept up with the latest news)

and in addition to calculations etc....the tea leaves or cloud movements are also in favour...from RNSs text....share price movement before results....chairman share buy..tipped by journos from the 2 big shares magazines..etc....although tea leaves are not always right...
after all that....for their results to disappoint would be a surprise to me

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but sure each person has their own preferences for risk or concentration of their own portfolio....Westerns....or any taking of partial profits...


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2) BTW
what did Shares mag. and IC have to say about NBI ?
anything interesting or new ?

[smithie6] 24/8/2014 21:16

there is a link on NBI msg. brd. to opinions and calcs. about NBI

[smithie6] 24/8/2014 21:13

btw
1) interesting that 88% of Western is owned by just 20 people !!

so any merger or whatever would be decided/voted on by less than 20 people !

2) Hartim 3M squid vapourised
1.5M worth to Western.
around 10p/western share

big holders with around 1M shares...cost them around 100k each...!

I expected they have been down to the Western offices to ask WTF is going on !

and imho it would never have happened if EB was forced to own say 1 years salary in Western shares..(if he wanted to qualify for the share options..a requirement at many listed cos.) AND/OR the share option scheme did NOT exist...

imho it was the carrot that forced them to agree to take a massive risk in Auz.
if L. Marshall and EB had been owning a solid amount of Western shares....and did not have the massive carrot of the option shares...
then they would have said NO to taking the risk imo...

Without taking large risks imo the perf. conditions will never be met (unless NBI keeps going well)....the other investments are unlikely to make up for the 0 performance over the last 20 years.

Although it would not surprise me if they changed the perf. conditions to maybe 3 used London metro tickets or something....to make sure that the shares are given out...

cheaper for David C Marshall to keep his London office workers happy and turning up by giving them mostly Western assets rather than LFIs !...even if the perf. is bad.

[topvest] 24/8/2014 19:19

Oh yes, you are correct - 2 top slices. They should be doing another at £6 in my view of 200k again. No doubt they are better informed on current trading than we are, but I think they need to keep top slicing so that they can grow their strategic investments when opportunities arise. A 6 fold profit is pretty good.

[smithie6] 24/8/2014 16:31

Northbridge is the only LFI/Western investment that has done well imo

The rest have mostly been a waste of time..
Creston, SWL, Blue chip portfolios, Doctors Direct, Hartim, MWB, Finsbury,

Did I miss any of their non-performers ?

...Sanctuary...they apparently made a profit on it ...before it de-listed...


so
thats another reason that makes me keen for Western to hang on to its investment in one of the few good growth companies around....NBI

[smithie6] 24/8/2014 16:25

they have sliced 15% of the original max. holding of 2.2M

I dont think they sold even 1 in the other years...well done for that...

15% is a small %...they still hold 85%....

10/10 for the bod or City Group !

and very rare for me to ever pat them on the back !


but then it is perhaps a lot easier to make investment decisions when you have someone who goes to the board meetings...so you know what is really going on... !

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you have 50% of your original holding..you say.....so at this moment they have done better than you !...imo...

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Tuesday you might want to buy them back....not too late ! je je !

[smithie6] 24/8/2014 16:21

...ah no.
2 times. See RNSs

2.2M shares down to 2M
and then
2M down to 1.875M

but not so important.

----

Im quite critical about many things at Western...
but
for Northbridge invesment they have actually handled the investment very well since the start imo !

although one could perhaps argue that they should have taken up their full rights in one of the share issues...perhaps the co. wouldnt let them...

but generally in the issues below 3 pnds they made the right decision and put up the cash...now worth a lot more at 6 quid/share

top slicing to generate cash to put into Hartim ...made sense...
(imo the Hartim accounts needed it..were a bit wobbly imo..but shhhhh...dont tell anyone I told you !)
and the 2 top slices in order to reduce debt/help Hartim ...makes sense since many people think the mkt is quite highly priced in 2014....so not a good time to be geared....coupled with the risk by high exposure to NBI...no need to take risk in every segment....(the risk with NBI exposure should be kept running imo)

LFI and Western have imo steamed in to previous mkt crashes with high gearing....so their NAV has been really nailled !..gearing gives a greater % NAV than the mkt fall %... (they really did not have a clue imo !)
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and with top slicing they have sliced from 2.2M to 1.875M ....only sliced a %...
still have most of the holding...

[topvest] 24/8/2014 16:08

I think WSE have only top sliced NBI once, rather than twice.

[smithie6] 24/8/2014 13:00

top-slicing NBI. I disagree....I think they should keep it as a strong hold.
Run your winners...cut your losers....

(they have top sliced 2 times already.....logical at the time....that is enough for now imo....)

in many years of Western history....they actually hold a winner !
the other 4 large investments have not been winners...
CRE. SWL. Blue Chips or Hartim.

In any case...they are perhaps unable to at present....since they have a director on the board...and that stops them from any trades at present I think. closed period.


Opinions and calculations...from yours truly...

hxxp://fulltimeinvestors.com/Northbridge/

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Not a good time for new strategic investments imo. Small companies are not cheap at the moment imo. Many floats in 2014....often over priced imo. 2009 was a good moment !

[topvest] 23/8/2014 14:31

I think they need 75% for a merger to be voted through under a special resolution, but haven't checked in detail. I would suspect that costs are better dealt with by talking to the directors. Think they should be top-slicing NBI at £6 to free up cash for new strategic investments. It only yields 1% and they should have learnt from their mistakes of old of not taking some money off the table when they have the chance to. I have top sliced NBI at £4 and £6, but still hold about 50% of my original holding.

[smithie6] 23/8/2014 14:00

btw...the Marshalls history has been to have numerous companies...
as someone posted I think...

and then get personal payments from each one....

better for them compared with merging ..and getting 1 or fewer payments

---

btw
if the Marshalls get a cut of the Employee shares......(secret perf. targets of course !
and how many shares for any Marshall...of course again not revealed to us company owners !)

then they get a cut of Western shares

and then again a cut of LFI shares....
and the Western assets support both shares prices....
a rake off 2 times..
and the same for operating costs....

---
LFI only has Finsbury to monitor...
and have had 2 ppl on the bod....that get paid...
so LFI monitoring cost should be free...

so the LFI costs especially should be low...

(Western has 3 listed...+ Hartim (again they are paid for 2 ppl on the bod))

[smithie6] 23/8/2014 13:37

Western discount to NAV

imo the discount will now reduce !

1 or 2 tiny buys and whoosh...imo

the approaching accounts date is perhaps enough of a catalyst
27th Sept last year.
2 days after the NBI H1 results
:-)

after the NBI price rises surely no one will now be willing to sell at current discount to NAV

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there is smartmoney out there that knows about Western, in addition to you and me !!

some buys in past 12 months around 10k per time between 40p and 55p
largish buys for Western...most PI trades would be 1 to 2k shares

[smithie6] 23/8/2014 13:24

Topvest
I think you have a good handle on co. rules

Can LFI together with WH Lamb Ltd vote thru a purchase of Western shares to merge the 2...by voting just over 50% of the shares....(59% of votes cast)

even if say 35% of existing shares voted NO...
and 15% of existing shares did not bother to vote...

if yes....they could
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The LFI shares in Western can be voted ....or cant be since they would be making the offer ?

------
DC Marshall would want a low price since he is a large owner in LFI !
and he votes a large block of Western shares !

which is perhaps a bit worrying...


----

but need 75% to de-list ???
and over 90% to do compulsory purchase of any shares that did not agree to the takeover/merger
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btw
with the rise in price of NBI...and hence of Western total asset value...
the possibility for LFI to buy Western surely gets harder...

or
maybe when such a merger would be 90% Western and 10% LFI then Western holders might be quite happy to move to take LFIs LSE listing !
be us taking over them rather than other way around !
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Western shares are illiquid on ISDX and LFI shares are illiquid on LSE....I dont see much/any difference.
Illiquidity. cant force holders to buy/sell !

[smithie6] 23/8/2014 13:22

Lonfin
personally I definitely do not want a merger

I have recently lost a packet by the MD of UBC de-merging its most valuable asset....which was why most PIs were invested in UBC....

after UBC had been involved and put money in to help it grow...

to see it rocket in value x 5 !
but while UBC shareholders then had only a small part of it !
afer previously having 51%

so
if Hartim were to one day produce some return for its backers...
well we put up the money for it...funded via the warrant units back a few years back...with 50% more shares issued in the end...

and we have now put in more money...

we have taken the risk...

we should get any return...

and not Lonfin