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Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Work Service S.a. LSE:WSE London Ordinary Share PLWRKSR00019 ORD BR PLN0.10
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  0.00 0.0% 55.00 10.00 100.00 55.00 55.00 55.00 0.00 00:00:00
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Equity Investment Instruments 0.0 0.1 0.4 137.5 10

Work Service Share Discussion Threads

Showing 751 to 771 of 1275 messages
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DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
03/1/2014
12:17
distributables and divis and distributable reserves, wrt comp. accounts and group accounts I need to learn up more about the details....and try and see if Hartim could do any corp. action to allow a divi to be paid earlier..such as moving money between company level and subsidiaries, to improve the number at company level. ---- Ah, -ve distributables, good point....I hadnt looked at that. but ! if they have made the same profit as last year ....then the accounts are now different, the year end has just happened I think, end Dec. so that 1.3M -ve could now be very close to 0.....and if got some of the loan or goods money back from Auz then the distrib. reserves would move +ve...and allow a divi or some corp. action or something to bump up the dist. reserves a little to allow a divi to be paid in coming months.....although they might be quite wary of any corp. actions after their Aussie 'mis-adverture' !! --- but looks like you are right that no divi till bump up the distributable reserves numbers (profit/loss number) --- cut
smithie6
02/1/2014
20:15
Hartim can't pay a dividend unless it restructures it's balance sheet - it has negative distributable reserves of £1.3m. Again this points to 2/3 years of clearing the deficit, which is also linked with the medium term funding put in place. Yes, I do hold some shares in the demerged Creston land company and even subscribed to their rights issue about a decade ago. Achieved nothing since unfortunately.
topvest
02/1/2014
17:08
ah, on the divi front, NBI is also expected to increase its divi... so Western income should well increase this year and with NBI price up a lot and looking solid...and CRE has perhaps found support around 90p..and SWL looking likely to rise... and Western income exceeds its operating costs and op. costs have been stable for last few years Western could well afford to increase its divi.... (personally I'd prefer they handed out all the assets 94p/share + %Hartim + %Ind. Commer. Hold. and we could each then make our own investment decisions on NBI, CRE and SWL..and we'd avoid 300k running costs..but that looks unlikely to happen)
smithie6
02/1/2014
17:03
Hartim float or pay divi ? Well, if it makes around 1M PBT/year , then approx. = 750K PAT. Western owns half, around 380k, or 2p per Western share. (18M shares) If pay out 1/4qtr of this PAT as a divi...then its 1/2p per Western share. And 1.5p per share to go to solidify the Hartim accounts and help fund stocks and working capital. If so, a 25% increase in divi. around 2p to 2.5p Be good news if it were to happy. Western shareholders have been very patient imo....invested in Hartim a few years ago now....and its never paid anything back for that investment.....and recent deal with the co. applies some pressure on them to pay a divi.....so clearly Western wants/expects it to happen. If it happens in forthcoming accounts will depend I guess on how solid the accounts are. Putting in 1/2M hopefully makes the accounts solid enough to support paying out around 95k-180k to Western to then use to increase the Western divi waiting is a bit like watching paint dry !!.....but the share price rose 40% last year....so that was beneficial waiting...the share price could easily move up from where it is now imo
smithie6
02/1/2014
16:54
Topvest personally I dont think investors would take any notice at all of an auditor comment that Auz subsidiary went bust and accounts not seen..... the dirs. would include notes that all possible losses from that Auz. subsidiary had been written off in full and that no further liabilities from it to Hartim existed.....and imo investors would then take no interest in the subject..... investors would look to see - how much profit is being made - profit falling or rising - debt level ref. profit. (negligible I think imo once include profit from 2013) Western have never mentioned floating it....always mentioned it providing income to Western...but a chunk of Marshall family trust assets are in LFI and get much higher value and directors fees !...if subsidaries are listed rather than private (part of the reason I think why they have not de-listed Western imo) (and if Western ever wanted to do any corporate actions or raise money for Hartim or whatever they it is much easier I think if it is listed.....shareholders in private companies need more persuading before they subscribe to an unlisted company imo....especially if the chairman and controlling shareholder is resident in South Africa !) but DCM has been involved in floats all the time he has been at Western and LFI ...been numerous.....with Western or LFI investing...and DCM getting a seat on the board as a result and City Group getting the work/income for doing the accounts and secretary function for most of those companies... DCM director income often paid to 'overseas company'...I assume to Marshall family trusts domiciled in Virgin Islands (mentioned in the papers somewhere) Western also of course has 30% of the land held in another associate company ..Western controls the board...which would need funding if ever gets building permission....so floating is also an option there perhaps....2 Marshalls on the board there....I assume they would be quite happy to turn it into a real company and get real directors fees....just get around 1k at the moment, but perhaps just for a 1 hour meeting one time per year...before other bod meetings....while a property company does the lobbying to get permission it was separated from Creston back in 2000...as a free bonus share...1:1.
smithie6
02/1/2014
16:38
NAV update to buy NAV 94.4p per share using NBI 468p CRE 95p SWL 90p Hartim and Gen. Portf. as per the accounts. (which we all agree is no where near the true value for Hartim) If value Hartim 10p higher then NAV = 104.4p If value Hartim 20p higher then NAV = 114.4p If value Hartim 30p higher then NAV = 124.4p (so, money moved from Gen. Portf. to Hartim , assuming that rather than taking on new debt.....is considered as having unchanged value...but in reality in Hartim it will produce a higher % return) NAG. DYOR
smithie6
01/1/2014
12:17
I do not recollect Hartim's flotation being a stated goal. It is a useful value benchmark as time passes. It is not the only option but could allow the DCM gravy train to keep rolling.
russman
31/12/2013
16:28
Smithie6 - No, the Hartim accounts will be qualified in my opinion. I've mentioned this a few times already, but when you have a limitation of scope because you don't have the records then it stays with you for at least a couple of years. The Australian entity is presumably in liquidation and so Hartim do not and will not have access to all the records. I'd love to see a float, but I really can't see this happening for 2/3 years as floating something with qualified accounts is very difficult and you would no doubt pay the price with investors offering a lower price. They would need to have a short form and that would be complicated by the Australian issue. Also, why would they want to dilute their holding at a rubbish price, whereas they could presumably now build up a nice three year record ahead of any listing. Has anyone at WSE ever mentioned a listing or is this just your wishful thinking?
topvest
31/12/2013
15:21
Topvest Hartim accounts and auditor note. I personally dont see that it would block the possibility of listing Hartim ....if the auditor note states that 1 Auz. subsidiary went into admin. and loan of Z not repaid to Hartim and goods to value of X also not paid back to Hartim ie. a total max. of Y....and that auditor has not seen the internal accounts of Auz. subsidiary to verify the use of that money or that it cant ever be paid back then surely the max. loss is limited at Y and that is already in the Hartim accounts if Hartim were ever to get anything back then it would be a plus for Hartim.... but I cant see any reason for it stopping the accounts. And in any case, I see no need for any auditor comment this year, since the money was already fully written off in previous accounts. (the dir. notes to the accounts could mention, if they wanted to, that there might be a possibility to get something back from the administration process in Auz) --- Doctors Direct IPO papers stated that there was a legal case about whether the sellers of Doctors Direct were in fact the full legal owners.... and the IPO went ahead ! so, if an IPO can happen with such a statement then imo, virtually anything can be floated, as long as the IPO document includes a note or info about all relevant material facts. Its then up to investors if they want to subscribe for shares or not. What do you think ? could Hartim not surprise us and issue an IPO doc. around April for 10% of new co. capital ....with annual accounts. year end is 31st Dec 2013 I think, so 3 months is enough for accounts. Including that it has declared to pay a divi of X on each existing share and new share.
smithie6
31/12/2013
15:10
or even a pony that can only do one trick.....I did get it ! (and hence my subsequent content in my older post...ref. FIF)
smithie6
30/12/2013
16:00
LFI/FIF.....trick pony !....nice to see a new angle ! (a trick pony ...whose success or not is very much linked to whether the gas price rises or not....and whether it rains in the Russian and American wheat fields...(dictating the price for flour) and same for sugar...).... ---- Topvest a) Hartim accounts qualification 'if' the Auz. venture produced audited accounts before Hartim produces theirs.....then could the Hartim accounts not then be unqualified ? (although I note that it appears that once in administration.....often things take a lot of time) b) Hartim...Auz. unreturned money for goods supplied did I ask this before ? normally contracts for goods are that goods remain the property of the supplier/producer until after they have been paid for in full.... and that they can recover any goods that have not been paid for so...imo the legal owner of the goods not paid for could send in an agent to regain their goods.....and hence Hartim would be re-paid and/or surely Western Rose Auz should have had a matching unpaid debt to whoever supplied the goods to them (for export) and hence there is no nett impact on Western Rose ?? (appears to me to be IMPOSSIBLY STUPID, if Western Rose actually paid for goods supplied to it where the end customer had not yet paid to Western Rose..... I thought that normally the distributor did not pay the mfr until they themselves got paid... otherwise for say Tesco, a distributor would need a working capital reqt. of hundreds of millions for rolling 60 days as waited for goods to be sold and then for them to get paid...so they can pay the mfr. and secondly. surely any distributor will/should have insurance in place....so that if goods in their warehouse are destroyed then insurance pays for the goods so that does not bankrupt the co. .....or if an end customer takes goods and does not pay and does not return the goods ...that the insur. co. would pay. if so, does Hartim have such insurance and is Hartim processing to try to get 1-2M pnds back.... if Hartim Auz. were to get 1-2M pounds back then it would be a good jump to Hartim accounts. imo...we're just the shareholders......not going to tell us anything ! c) Is there a part of Hartim in Auz. still trading ...and just one of its subsidiaries in Auz went into admin ?
smithie6
27/12/2013
21:11
I try to stay focused amongst your conjecture. I suggest WSE should be more aggressive & assume control of Hartim; the risks are known. LFI is a one trick pony, if the pony bolts - LFI will have 1 option left.
russman
27/12/2013
18:08
Halogen Holdings PLC is still unlisted I believe and owns a substantial stake in Heartsone Inns which owns 9 pubs valued as a business at about £7.8m of which £3m is Halogen's share. See www.heartstoneinns.co.uk Heartstone is an EIS investment. It's EBITDA positive, but hardly a cracking investment. The pubs look nice and no doubt the wider family of interested parties enjoy visiting. Halogen has been left as an unlisted holding company and so a few holders are presumably not that happy given there is no dividend and no trading opportunity. Marshall Monteagle own 47% though. Hartim accounts will be qualified in 2013 as well I believe, but the qualification will eventually work it's way through. No chance of a Hartim float in the near term in my view.
topvest
27/12/2013
16:27
'Will LFI buy Western ?' One fairly obvious possibility would be to do it at the same time as move Hartim in to occupy Westerns empty listing.....and as a sweetner to get Western shareholders to agree to it... I note that LFI would only have to buy out one major shareholder to get over 50% ...in such a case LFI would have to match that price for anyone that wanted to sell to them....but at say 55% of Western, Western would still have its listing and own bod. To move the Western assets to LFI and then move Hartim into an empty Western shell would I assume need a 75% vote of Western shareholders. 2) Topvest in next Hartim accounts will the accounts still carry an auditor qualification ? or only in first year ? or is an auditor note needed every year until the accounts from Auz. are obtained and auditted by Hartim ? 3) Hartim lost about 1.3M of good and similar amount in cash loan... I wonder if the other 2 partners lost the same amount... since Hartim only had 50% or was it only Hartim that put its hand in its pocket ?!!
smithie6
27/12/2013
15:57
updated previous post in case of interest ----- Western if true NAV is around 113p +/- X then if grows NAV by 10% in coming year then = 13p 13/57p = 23% ...+ 4% divi = 27%. very good if it were to happen imo and the discount could easily reduce by 10p imo to give 13+2+10 = 25p. 44% while the risk side looks very reasonable imo...invested over a number of companies not just one, main investment as NBI, which has an excellent track record of growth under existing exec. dirs. EPS for WSE works out imo at atleast 7p, calculated from the EPS of its constituents, giving a low P/E rating it went up 40% in 2013 !!.....40p to 57p ...one only needs 20% per year every year to make a good gain over 10 years from ones investments.
smithie6
27/12/2013
15:53
Halogen Holdings Do you follow this one ? Was it not bought by another company that the Marshalls control ? (small pub/restaurant company if I recall.....dangerous times to invest in that sector imo....as people's disposable income has been tight imo...and a lot of pubs have closed due to lack of income....although if you are buying pubs then prices are probably reasonable)
smithie6
27/12/2013
15:50
'ISDX perhaps closing' 'possible merger with LFI' ISDX...I see it continuing..but who knows.....they get some income, and a cut via trading of AIM shares as well.... Is it loss making or profit making ? LFI and Western have had the chance to do various logical moves in the past....and they never make any !.....eg. share buy backs to reduce the deficit to NAV or a compulsory share buy back at NAV of say 10%-20% of the shares followed by cancellation (they get a cut from the NAV and the NAV pays their office running costs and expenses and salaries.....so perhaps they dont want to reduce the total Asset value and hence reduce the money that goes for office costs (and salary and expenses for any Marshalls !) (the share price would increase, shareholders might wake up !....and ask for more of the same !....going against long term Marshall desires, ie. shrinking the size of the co. and its income) de-listed or listed, little difference perhaps as listed co. the dirs. refuse to tell us how they spend 280k. so, wouldnt change if the co. was de-listed imo. Move back to AIM. Looks unlikely AIM. BUT AIM shares are now ISAble....and perhaps that would appeal to the bod. But, Mr Beale does not own 1 Western share, so there would be no tax benefit or loss to him of Western shares being moved to AIM and ISAble. ----- Will LFI buy Western ? Who knows. So far they havent. There were perhaps better times, from LFI viewpoint, to do it than now. Before NBI doubling in price the Western shares were much cheaper imo.....and LFI knew that NBI shares were under priced. But they didnt try to buy Western. The long term plan of the Marshalls is imo to keep adding subsidiaries....like Hartim and Ind. Comm. Holdings (the land near Glasgow).....without requiring any cash from the Marshalls (paid by LFI or Western or new PIs) and hence the Marshalls can increase their power and income....and secure future income for future generations of Marshalls and family members/wives/kids. D.Marshall took over from his dad......who had perhaps taken over from his dad and L.Marshall is now on LFI board ready to take over from D.Marshall who is now around official retirement age.
smithie6
24/12/2013
22:32
I am focused on the unlisted value - Hartim. The other risks I can manage.
russman
24/12/2013
20:47
Looking ahead there probably won't be a market for WSE shares quite soon. I suspect ISDX is going to close in 2014. It's not had anything list on it for months and companies continue to exit. At least then you won't have a share price to worry about the discount! In fact, there won't be a trading facility at all. It might present a good buying opportunity if some punters panic though. Be interesting to see what happens then. I suspect that may well be the trigger for a merger with Lonfin. Maybe that was always the long-term plan and the costs of this will be lower as WSE would then just be a private company. What do you think? To be honest I cannot understand why WSE ever moved from AIM to ISDX unless this was just saving some money short term / a merger was contemplated medium to long term. They could re-list on AIM, but that's going to cost c£200k which is not great use of funds. A bigger concern is if they stay as an unlisted holding company like Halogen Holdings has done for the last 5 years or so.
topvest
24/12/2013
18:48
Hi Not got any Athelney....I did once upon a time....I sometimes read the long market views in the accounts.....often throwing mud at politicians ..enjoyable ! Panther...I have looked at in the past.....but Im not a fan of commercial UK property at present....although the Panther dirs. do seem to know what they are doing.. ---- cut Western if true NAV is around 113p +/- X then if grows NAV by 10% in coming year then = 13p 13/57p = 23% ...+ 4% divi = 27%. very good if it were to happen imo and the discount could easily reduce by 10p imo to give 13+2+10 = 25p. 44% while the risk side looks very reasonable imo...invested over a number of companies not just one, main investment as NBI, which has an excellent track record of growth under existing exec. dirs. EPS for WSE works out imo at atleast 7p, calculated from the EPS of its constituents, giving a low P/E rating it went up 40% in 2013 !!.....40p to 57p ...one only needs 20% per year every year to make a good gain over 10 years from ones investments. --- cut
smithie6
24/12/2013
18:17
Yes, glad you enjoy being a holder in Athelney Trust - I also have some of these. The Chairman's ramble is nearly as good as Perloff at Panther. Again not the best, but a relatively safe home and a reasonable dividend record albeit some of the dividend is effectively paid out of capital.
topvest
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