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Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Work Service S.a. LSE:WSE London Ordinary Share PLWRKSR00019 ORD BR PLN0.10
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  0.00 0.0% 55.00 10.00 100.00 55.00 55.00 55.00 0.00 00:00:00
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Equity Investment Instruments 0.0 0.1 0.4 137.5 10

Work Service Share Discussion Threads

Showing 726 to 748 of 1275 messages
Chat Pages: Latest  39  38  37  36  35  34  33  32  31  30  29  28  Older
DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
23/12/2013
18:17
They hold the investment at cost +/- their share of profits or losses rather than a valuation, as you would do a listed company. The valuation is therefore very cautious in my opinion, but it's difficult to value anyway. Personally I think it could be worth £2-3m once they get on an even keel. There is no point saying WSE is cheap on one hand and slating management on the other. The discount is caused by average management and a controlling shareholder. As I've said before, WSE management are OK in my opinion. Running businesses is no easy job and they have a few successful investments, and some not so successful ones. The only real basket case has been Doctors Direct. Sanctuary was good for a while and so was MWB, but they both failed eventually. MWB failed because of excess leverage, but they had some good things...Malmaison Hotels, Liberty etc, MWB Exchange.
topvest
23/12/2013
16:54
Topvest for Hartim to be re-valued as part of these share transactions...does it require new shares to be issued ? and the resulting value for all of Hartim from that would then be used ...increasing the Western NAV 2) if the shares are moved/sold from person 1 to person 2 (a major transaction as we know, old MD to new execs) would that meet the accounting rules for Hartim to be re-valued ?
smithie6
23/12/2013
14:49
ah and if Hartim is trading well how and why is the MD willing to sell his shares in it ??! If I was the departing MD I might be willing to sell 1/2 of my shares to new dirs. ...as a trade to avoid being formally sacked or investigated but I wouldnt be willing to sell all my shares.....since surely the claimed good current trading is partly due to my work over the last 5 years ?? ---- 'to buy' NAV 93p imo ("to buy"- explained in old posts) using NBI 465p, SWL 90p, CRE 87p, Hartim value 300k (just under 2p per Western Share), Gen Portf 2.95M (ie. new investment in Hartim is not included, imo no change in value at present until we get more info) with Hartim at 10p higher then NAV around 103p with Hartim at 20p higher then NAV around 113p Western share price at 55-58p.....crazy imo, far too cheap. not far off halve price imo just the NBI part is around 52p per share, surely underpinning the share price the risk part of risk/reward looks tiny imo and paying almost 4% divi now....and Hartim should now pay a divi, so Western Divi looks fairly g'teed imo. (SWL showing signs of life today, quoted price to sell has moved up a few p) ---- The dirs. buys confirms that the current accounts Hartim value of 300k for 50% is ....not true....way undervalued....new dirs. are paying much higher price
smithie6
23/12/2013
14:29
following on from Russman post about Western not being able to stop certain actions.... Western had the full chance to make that one of the conditions of the recent debt funding.....such as any major decisions to be first approved with Western.... ---- appears to me that Western does not sit on the boards at lower levels.... seems amazingly STUPID to me. Anyone that invested in an venture capital deal like this would insist to sit on the boards of any significant parts of the group, surely. There is imo a holding co. below Hartim, Tudor Rose Holding....and imo Western are not on the board, nor on the board at Tudor Rose. NUTS imo
smithie6
23/12/2013
14:22
Good to see some discussion on WSE msg. board. Topvest "Having convertible debt is far more sensible and is what they have done." personally I think I would agree with Russman....(and I think my earlier post) that in return for helping out Hartim that Western should have obtained a benefit of some sort 2) personally I think that Topvests note is not true, imo the loan is NOT convertible.. An IMPORTANT point imo. ....it is just secured by the value of the business.....if the business breaks the loan conditions then Western could in theory issue a winding up order request to a court and own the business.....but if that was to happen then it would infer that the business was in big problems and not worth owning ---- I agree with Topvests post that the 160k loan to directors is probably just a part of the money that dirs. are using to buy shares in Hartim. ---- I repeat my earlier comment/post....that shareholders are intentionally being kept in the dark. IMPORTANT points are not being revealed. How many shares, or what % of Hartim are the new dirs. buying ? How many shares is the ex-MD. not selling ? At what price...and how does that compare with the price that Western paid back in 2007/8 ? 2) What is going on in Auz. and is it possible that Hartim will recover any money ....imo they should since the goods normally remain property of the original owner/producer until they are actually paid in full for them..... could Hartim get 1M or 2M back ? cut
smithie6
22/12/2013
17:59
Yes, it is a risk. There is more upside than downside though as Hartim SHOULD be worth considerably more than the book value. It's a cracking little business - they just need to run it properly. I don't expect them to make the same mistakes again, but then again!
topvest
22/12/2013
17:02
I agree with your statement. My headache is the potential downside to this further investment. WSE Bod said that Hartim's £1.4m loss was due to a management decision & as WSE is a minority shareholder they were "powerless" to stop it. WSE may still be in the same minority position but have provided further cash to support their investment. If Hartim rejuvenates, we will not worry.
russman
21/12/2013
15:58
They didn't do that for 2 reasons I think: 1. Doing so would have caused them a bit of a headache. Consolidating a material entity with a disclaimer of audit opinion would lead to qualified group accounts; and 2. To incentivise executive management. Having convertible debt is far more sensible and is what they have done.
topvest
20/12/2013
22:37
In WSE last yr end Hartim stake @ 49.50% had a carrying value of £185k. I would be very "displeased" if they have not taken this opportunity to attain greater than 50% of the votes.
russman
20/12/2013
21:28
I expect the management team have invested some of their own cash as well as the loan monies - maybe 50% loan 50% their own money? Yes, it does look like the MD was forced-out. The original FD left about a year earlier I believe after the leasing fiasco. The important point was that Hartim is now trading well. The new management team will prove themselves over time I guess. We will see.
topvest
19/12/2013
17:20
btw a dir. at SWL has picked up another 10K SWL shares....probably the MD hopefully a good indicator for the future SWL sp and for SWLs sales in the important Xmas period !
smithie6
19/12/2013
16:58
topvest "Hopefully the new management team don't make the same mistakes." btw imo only the MD is being changed...only 1 director has left according to co. house and the co. secretary was changed the rest of the board are not being changed imo appears that new MD was perhaps taken on 8 months ago..if it is Mr Couzins-Short ..there is also a Mr N Short, since Nov 2011.....whether related or not I dont know.. ----- the Auz. mess up looks pretty bad....if you look at the numbers it had large costs.....and the chance of paying them from the turnover needed major major changes to happen, especially if note that the % margin from distribution is always small, like suddenly doubling the turnover....I had assumed they had arranged sufficient new contracts to achieve that before making the aqusition, appears that they did not....which appears a bit stupid, without knowing the details. UPDATED ...the extra turnover coming from merging with 2 other companies....one was Gourmet (a name also existing in UK) got it all pretty wrong imo to create a merged venture, which someone calculated would be viable....and supportable with the financial means of the merger partners....to then write off the loans from Hartim only 9 months later !! infers that the decision was about to be made 3 months before....and that considering to make the decision 6 months before, ie. only 3 months after the acquisition ! the ink on the cheque hardly had time to dry !
smithie6
19/12/2013
14:52
I thought that the MD of Hartim that was forcibly removed imo (after losing the co. 3M squid, with the approval of the rest of the board including E.Beale and Marshall junior) had close to 50% of Hartim...not 35% when Western invested there were imo only 3 shareholders, Western, Mr Aird and 1 more director that had a relatively small stake, maybe 2-5% ...later Mr Aird seems to have sold some shares, maybe 5%. (hopefully he didnt do it knowing about the Auz. losses without telling the buyer !) Who to ?? --- Mr Aird must have a background in import/export one assumes, or something similar, in order to have been willing to put in over 300K of his own money to Hartim when it started. Does the new MD have a background in import/export....or does he have no idea at all ?? ---- a) the dirs. need to put up some of their own money, or to at least g'tee the loans with their personal assets. How much of their own money are the new dirs. putting in ?? If directors have their own money invested (rather than Westerns) then there would be a lower risk imo that they would take bad risks with the co. (although it didnt work for the Auz. venture) b) infers imo that no money has been recovered from Auz. .....imo it needs to be chased up.....imo goods supplied should be returned, or sold, and if sold then the money should be paid to the Hartim Auz. co. ...to make sure no money goes missing, especially since it is at same time as the main responsible leaves ------ cut
smithie6
19/12/2013
14:34
Athelney trust up 20%.....arguably another similar small eclectic fund to now be on I think close to zero discount to NAV fingers crossed it might happen to the Western share price one day
smithie6
19/12/2013
08:08
Yes, just read the announcement. Hopefully the new management team don't make the same mistakes. Not much about who they are. Positive that it says Hartim is performing well and that WSE will start earning a return through interest and dividends. As I thought, too early for a listing, but maybe the start of a new and better story. Would like to see it listed at some point!
topvest
18/12/2013
20:03
Very conservative transaction. I presume the "retiring" director had 35% of Hartim? Let's see if Hartim shapes up.
russman
18/12/2013
16:12
any views on the Western RNS ?
smithie6
06/12/2013
18:57
NAV reminder end of year accounts June 30th 2012 72p. share price 42.5p June 30th 2013 82p *1 share price 52p (maybe 22% increase on previous year) Dec 6th 2013 95p (using buy prices not mid prices, my estimate, 125p if value subsidiary at P/E of 10) shows good historic perf. in the rise of the NAV....for the future we have to wait to see... current share price is 55-58p ( being the actual prices that buy and sell trades have gone thru at....while quoted price to buy is 60p) fill order buy trades have gone thru.....only when a sale is processed....and since the MM doesnt want to sit and hold the stock he is happy to fill buy orders at 58p and make easy money for 30 seconds of work, 5-6% !! --- current discount % to NAV is high 'if' Hartim is worth a multiple of its PBT then the NAV is imo around 125p. whereas if Hartim manages to self implode after its Auz 'misadventure' then the NAV is 95p ...and share price is still well below that...at 58p to buy ---- 95p comes from using NBI 490p CRE 86p SWL 90p 2.95M Gen portfolio. 200k nett debt and 300k value in Hartim and associates (real value is much higher imo, eg. if price based on P/E of say 10 it is worth a few million squid) logic for using 'buy' prices, see previous posts (shows the share price increasing by 10p as the NAV increases by 10p. the share price increase of 10p being a much higher %) Dec. my est. around 93-96p.....I havent calculated it for a week or so, NBI is a tiny bit lower, small %, CRE down 15% but only a part of the total Western NAV. *1 *1. The true NAV is considered to be higher since valuation method used for a subsidiary is not reasonable and values it only based on its nett assets (small at present) and not its profitability, which is high.
smithie6
04/12/2013
13:30
3 buys of 10K (and sales) gone thru in last 2 weeks unusually big trades for Western....hopefully a good sign, some year ends coming up soon...and also I assume closed periods...
smithie6
04/12/2013
13:28
Occasionally one sees a cool posting name "oooff" very cool ! and thanks for pointing out the AGM info, agrees with the numbers I had been posting for NAV for Western imo
smithie6
28/11/2013
20:33
LFI had much more information in their result of AGM announcement today, than WSE.
oooff
26/11/2013
13:02
with NBI at 495p to buy and grinding up.... now 55p of NBI for each 1 share in Western (2M shares in NBI and Western has just under 18M shares, 17.9M I think) imo Western is now a better buy than NBI since if you pay 57p or 60p to buy Western shares...you get 55p of NBI inside that prices and a load of other assets as well.....imo a good deal imo a good chance that Western will tick up another 1-2p, if anyone buys any shares....illiquid, few trades...
smithie6
15/11/2013
15:59
good acquisition by nbi sp up around 54p of nbi for each western share makes the price to sell western shares of 55p looks nuts imo. considering all the other assets that come with 1 western share nbi share price could easily pop up on monday if any press mention at the weekend --- western NAV must be around 95p now using hartim at book value and around 125p if value it at 30p higher based on P/E of around 10. keep on holding on as far as I am concerned
smithie6
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