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WPCT Woodford Patient Capital Trust Plc

33.60
0.00 (0.00%)
Last Updated: 00:00:00
Delayed by 15 minutes
Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Woodford Patient Capital Trust Plc LSE:WPCT London Ordinary Share GB00BVG1CF25 ORD 1P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  0.00 0.00% 33.60 33.55 33.90 - 0.00 00:00:00
Industry Sector Turnover Profit EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap
0 0 N/A 0

Woodford Patient Capital Share Discussion Threads

Showing 1376 to 1397 of 11725 messages
Chat Pages: Latest  61  60  59  58  57  56  55  54  53  52  51  50  Older
DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
14/11/2017
07:47
There is only one VCT with a market cap above £200m!
toffeeman
13/11/2017
22:50
Options might have been limited by target fund size.
p1nkfish
13/11/2017
22:49
mf, yes. Woodford at the helm is less a problem than the listing and architecture of the fund. Tax relief up front, more sophisticated investors and a lock in sounds sensible for this type of portfolio.
p1nkfish
13/11/2017
20:18
MF,
I agree, into waters which he was not an expert in,
Should have stuck with what he was good at, FTSE index.

elmfield
13/11/2017
19:48
With hindsight, I wonder why this wasn't launched as a VCT? I know many VCTs are structured to give an artificial level of income, but a pure vehicle investing in unquoted companies with the upfront tax benefits and a long lock in period may have been a better fit for the patient concept.
mad foetus
13/11/2017
19:04
And the penultimate poster missed out the 'c' at the beginning of his name. hee hee
kpo115
13/11/2017
18:31
It looks like, it appears, it seems, that when the Almighty was handing out brain cells to trolls he ran out very early in the process.
the air marshall
13/11/2017
16:53
They used the word patient as they'll be wheeling u lot out of the operating theatre
rackers1
13/11/2017
16:49
mf, it's not contentious to say that. You've mentioned verifiable numbers too.

What no one on the slinging mud side has done is take into account the word "patisnt" didn't come with any time limit.

p1nkfish
13/11/2017
16:06
The trust has been going for 2and a half years now and is showing a loss. The average VCT has done much better (with big tax advantages) and the average UK smaller companies trust has made 60% in that period. There can be many reasons for this, but the only ones I can think of are that either Woodford wasn't sufficiently selective in his choice of investments (I.e. he took in too much cash and splurged it on everything in sight at that time) or that his choice of investments was poor. It is very sad as I believe the concept is not only good but necessary: lots of us want to invest in new companies that need capital, rather then buying second hand shares. To date, the problem appears to be in the execution rather than the idea, and I don't see how it is contentious to say so.
mad foetus
13/11/2017
15:52
How many IPO's were pitched vs number invested in?

You lost all credibility jonwig with this one statement that is caveated with "appears" and "seemingly" as cop outs so you don't have to deliver even a modicum of proof. Purely intended to sway opinions of the less than thoughtful types.

Proof please, verifiable numbers?

"• His approach appears to have been scattergun, with, seemingly, investments in all the IPOs promoted to him."

p1nkfish
13/11/2017
12:39
jonwig, this your thread and I am sure that you feel justified in speaking in such an Olympian fashion. I do not wish to be offensive but I do not agree with anything you say. With the greatest respect you have chosen to make your case by asserting (loftily) that your propositions are true. You do not offer any supporting facts or workings which is, of course, the modus operandi of the trolls that have always infested this thread.

I'm going to cop out here. I could address all of your pontifications but frankly I am already too bored to do so.

brianarthur1939
13/11/2017
07:46
brianarthur - you protest overmuch. The constraints expressed by a number of posters here (including myself) show full awareness of of the kind of fund this is. To summarise the strictures;

• It is too large - and he wanted it to be twice as big, by raising more equity at an early stage.

• His approach appears to have been scattergun, with, seemingly, investments in all the IPOs promoted to him.

• He adopted 20% debt gearing on a portfolio producing virtually no income.

Some here have suggested it would only be a buy at a substantial discount (seems sensible). Many posters here have misunderstood the term "patient" - it refers not to them, but to the fund manager.

If I were a holder, I'd want to know what can go wrong with it, not be insulated from inconvenient contrary opinions. Welcome them, provided they are constructive; filter those who are just messing about.

jonwig
13/11/2017
01:48
Yet again for the twentieth time no figures from the trolls to back up their brainless assertions.

If you did not realise that some of these investments were risky why did you invest in WPCT in the first place and then bore us all with your turgid ineffective posts?

brianarthur1939
12/11/2017
21:09
Sphere will offer a good return and the actions taken will increase the TAM to $1Bn and make FDA easier to achieve. With Phillips compatability it has installations it will be able to sit upon where hospitals have already invested in systems so can be viewed as an add-on/piggyback.

This fund was never going to achieve anything like linear growth because that's not how it's constituents will proceed.

It really is best if those not willing to support this, or have any understanding of how frustrating it will be for extended periods, sell.

p1nkfish
12/11/2017
20:07
mochyn - Again another stall bull are we - Just go and look at the accounts Listed stocks and how the amount lost on the worst performers

All the figures are there it you take time to look - Just go and look at the price graphs for instance - Sphere - RM2 - Halo - to name but 3 - Extra funds being pumped in via Convertibles but nothing certain - As has been pointed out many times this fund is high risk - If it comes off then great potential but impossible to value the unquoted stocks - For instance Sphere with the extra funds pumped in might perfect their technology and get taken over at significantly more than the amount Woodford has put in - or it might go bust .

pugugly
12/11/2017
18:22
TAM -
* You implied it was not held by your "random" comment - Stop pretending you did not.
* It may only account for 0.01% now - His original cost was very many multiples of today's value. Go and look at the original accounts - Where you will with a little bit of maths be able to calculate the losses and gains on the quoted stocks. Mad foetus seems to have a FAR BETTER JUDGEMENT of risk reward here.

So apologies still required - Or do you fail to understand simple maths and fundamental principles of investment -

My last direct response to you but I will continue to post as I see it - Might even invest if gets to sufficient discount to claimed NAV (I say claimed as virtually impossible to value unlisted coys)

pugugly
12/11/2017
17:42
Pug, you've got a cheek. You and your buddy, I seem to remember, were lambasting WPCT for owning Provident Financial when it tanked (and which you didn't predict). Provident Financial is NOT a WPCT share nor has it ever been.

riskversusreward has a record as long as your arm for doing the same thing with a long list of shares.

Neither of you has apologised!

As for Sphere, I never said that it wasn't in WPCT. What I do resent, however, is you and your fellow troll coming out as ruminative experts on Sphere, which anyway makes up only 0.01 of WPCT. Neither of you know anything important about the non-quoted shares and therefore your so-called arguments on those that form a large part of WPCT are completely spurious.

the air marshall
12/11/2017
14:53
As mentioned, I bought in at IPO and sold a week ago. My view is the same as it was at launch. WPCT is a very good idea. My concern was always the speed at which Woodford invested the monies. Many of us have probably found themselves in possession of a lump sum to invest and it takes time. Woodford appeared to throw the money he raised at literally every opportunity available. Then he appeared to average down as companies like Sphere and RM2 and NWBO ran out of cash. There just didn't seem to be much in the way of considered execution of the original plan. No way of cutting losses and running winners or of trying to skew the odds so that the winners outnumbered the losers.

I still hold FEET, but the jury is out on that. It has many similarities to WPCT: star fund manager, hyped at launch to a premium that has become a discount and significantly underperforming the sector. I have no doubt that both Terry Smith and Neil Woodford are excellent fund managers, but it may be a warning about what happens when they try to isolate factors that can lead to outperformance into a more turbo-charged version of their ordinary funds. FEET of course has the advantage of liquidity: WPCT appears to be involved in many companies where there is simply no way of selling out. But the crux remains that FEET has underperformed the average emerging markets fund and WPCT has underperformed the average smaller companies/VCT fund. In both cases, the sectors are up around 50% over the past 18 months, whereas FEET and WPCT have trod water. That is pretty shocking underperformance, though Woodford gets kudos for not charging fees in that scenario.

mad foetus
12/11/2017
14:28
TAM - If you do not believe that Sphere is a Patient Capital held share then you should should not be posting here -

Just to educate you suggest you go to



where you might learn something of use !!!!

Apologies due from you ASAP -

pugugly
12/11/2017
13:28
prewar don't waste your breath on riskvsreward and PUGUGLY. They're just Woodford trolls and ignorant at that. All they do is list random shares which have nothing to do with WPCT and then they don't have the brains to defend themselves if challenged. They just bluster!
the air marshall
11/11/2017
20:16
risk: You have missed a significant one - Sphere - Taken off the market at HALF A PENNY - down over 90% - Now unquoted and being supported via Convertible loans stock by who else but W - All PI's are well under water - If still holding, and probably if sold out before being delisted -
pugugly
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