Woodford Patient Capital Share Discussion Threads

[spectoacc] 18/10/2019 13:44

@timnet - I fear my only interest is in having called Woodford out in 2016, and been banging my head against a wall most of the time since - until the last 6 months, which have been overflowing with schadenfreude (but with more head-banging at Woodford's lies)..

Link are up to their necks, I agree. The revaluation upwards of IH, adding c.8p to WPCT's NAV, was a particularly heinous act IMO. The subsequent revaluation down has yet to be completed. To ditch WIM from WEIF now, after all this time, is ridiculous. Is Link trying to appear as the gamekeeper?

The WPCT Board, several of whom have already jumped ship, certainly need attention.

The Guernsey listings, done in plain site simply to get around the letter of the law, is another. FCA culpable here - Guernsey warned them. Note the RAV "Fat Bloke Finance" connection, with the RAV boys owning the co that sponsored the listing, whilst Woody held RAV, RAVC, RAVP in WEIF.

Using WEIF money to support WPCT stocks, at higher valuations, is certainly interesting. I think WEIF took the last Rutherford slot?

Woody has always claimed "all wealth ex house" to be in WIM & funds - is this true? He has two houses, for starters. If it's not true, where's the case against him?

HL utterly heinous for their "Wealth 50" and I'd love them to be targeted, but struggling to see how. They are clearly the "deep pockets" tho.

I'd also love Woody to be taken to task for spouting such nonsense about how WEIF was positioned. But again - if it's not "advice", is there a claim?

The secret WPCT share sale seems the most likely thing to get NW on IMO, but it doesn't return investors money.

And Link on all the WPCT stuff, inc the "Not Asset Value" that lo and behold, has been getting slowly walked down (with a long way still to go).

[jonwig] 18/10/2019 13:26

Ft has some articles (can't link as mobile).

1) FCA are investigating Hl,
2) Ft asked W to comment, he said he couldn't as FCA had imposed a gagging order. FCA say they haven't.
Who to believe? Tough one that!

[timnet] 18/10/2019 13:19

SpecttoAcc

I'm really interested in your list of potential actions against Woodford, but I wonder if you might extend it to the Board (execs and nonexecs), Link, WIM, HL, FCA et al in this whole sorry saga. I would be particularly interested in a forensic examination of 1.transfers of (unlisteds') stocks between WEIF and WPCT - and whether these were associated transactions or not; 2. movements of cash and 3. the whole question of fees and charges between WPCT, WEIF, Link, WIM. I'd also be interested to know how the auditors have been able to sign off on valuations.

I have a friend who might be able to help to initiate a class action if we can get something concrete for him to work on - when he gets back from Japan... It would seem that we have 2 months to get our act into gear. Gina Millar might need a new project after the other painful sorry saga finally concludes.

As you add to your list, can you keep updating it for us: I'd like to build some momentum on this as this whole issue has much wider ramifications throughout the Financial Services industry. Has anyone else on this board any input into potential actions?

My own interest is as an overweight (and, in hindsight, ridiculously loyal and patient) holder of WPCT shares, consequently sitting on a heavy unrealised loss.

[ltcm1] 18/10/2019 12:14

Surely the top priority of the Weif 'repositioning' is to immediately jettison their holding in WPCT! What is it - 10%???

[spectoacc] 18/10/2019 09:21

I've not seen what BlackRock are being paid - but I do know that under EU law, it's mid-Jan (3 month notice period) before starting wind-up. They have, however, said that they'll "continue to reposition" the portfolio, which is clearly contradictory.

Been through Woody's extensive biotech list, and if there's one thing all have in common - it's the need for more money before commercialisation. It won't be coming from WIM, and may not be coming at all.

I'd feel sorry for them, gaining backing from a whale who turns out to be a shrimp, except for UK biotech's long history of 99% value destruction.

[my retirement fund] 18/10/2019 09:01

In reality Black Rocks task is to engineer this wind up in a way that keeps the fees rolling in for all. This is not about trying to realise some sort of cash value from otherwise worthless waste. Talk about a gift horse!!

[diku] 18/10/2019 08:28

British Bio in there?...many moons ago..

[dr biotech] 18/10/2019 08:25

Arm/pym/akt/cenes/ara/regen/xen/Cantab/antisoma and countless other biotechs. if they are developing one or two drugs then they are just land mines. Has been a few winners, but it’s a high risk game. It was the large holding in prothena that made me sell out. I learned my lesson years ago and don’t touch them. Perhaps a decent spread would have a place up in a fund like this, but they should never have been in the WEIF.

[p@] 18/10/2019 07:47

Thnx for that Spec,think i'll watch from a distance.

[spectoacc] 18/10/2019 07:22

UK biotech = bargepole IMO, can count on less than one hand the number of successful ones over the last 20 years.

Tho don't particularly follow SNG. Be interesting to see what price BlackRock get for 19.5% of it early next year.

Edit - had a quick read and seems reasonable - looks like enough cash to last to the Phase II results in Q2 2020. Trial results will have to be good (but seem to be so far) to then raise the much larger amount needed for Phase III, then needs to get through Phase III, with revenues some distant time after that if all goes perfectly.

Has a price, hard to tell where that price is. If you had a portfolio of these you'd....probably lose 90% like Woodford.

[p@] 18/10/2019 07:19

Spec-What do you think of SNG when it stabilises?

[spectoacc] 18/10/2019 07:00

Been constructing the "Woodford list" from RNS's, and although I knew he had some dreadful holdings (RM2, EVE etc), hadn't realised quite how many hopeless UK (often biotech) losers he held, in considerable size (13-36% of the equity).

Good luck BlackRock in shifting many of those. One or two decent ones amongst them, but really only one or two. Anything with a market he'd dumped already.

[spectoacc] 17/10/2019 20:16

I might have to unfilter the trolls so I can read their apologies.

Or maybe not :)

[daffyjones] 17/10/2019 20:13

Whatever happened to Harijan's other aliases littleweed and Petethepict? Sitting on a 50% loss. How sad.

littleweed1 4 Jun '19
This is pete's first post this morning. The man's an ACE INVESTOR!


petethepict 4 Jun '19 - I bought a nice little wodge at just under 63p this morning on the basis that the shorters would probably close having feasted a bit. I don't know whether they have or not, but I am content anyway. What you amateur trolls call "averaging down", I call "buying on weakness".

In the longer term I shall make a lot of money on WPCT. You silly pompous little trolls, (like you spectoacc!) currently creaming your pants, won't.

I think that's very funny. LOL
Nobody here apart from said flappers cares about the open-ended funds


petethepict - 01 Jul 2019 -
I like your style, buywell. You couldn't care a damn what the bullies and the trolls are fibbing about this week.

I see a slow upwards movement developing here over the next six months.

[psychochomper] 17/10/2019 16:37

Unfortunately, my attempt to significantly increase my short position was not possible. No one is lending. This is clearly heading lower. By the time this gets suspended, the share register will be dominated by PIs who have no idea how to pause for thought, and keep on buying. Or that they are in denial.

[pythian] 17/10/2019 16:28

Interesting share this. I bought for the first time at just over 30p yesterday. It's gone up since then, as I write this, anyway. I didn't see spectoacc predict that though, and he is so certain in his predictions.

So I must prepare for real disappointment. Alas and lackaday.

[fxprotrader] 17/10/2019 16:00

But there is a calculation to see what value is left in those shares and what % of the portoflio is affected to see if the discount is overdone. A new manager will change the outlook too

[spectoacc] 17/10/2019 15:55

@eithin - as pointed out above, you're going to lose all your +1p's on the housebuilders the moment BlackRock attempts to sell the Unicorns.

@Knowing - yes, a manager transfer of the bulk of EVE. M

@FXpro - enough to cover the OD I wonder? The easily sellable has been easily sold.

[fxprotrader] 17/10/2019 15:52

What % of the fund is in no tradeable stocks? Is it 30%, I think I read somewhere. There may be some value here given the discount, but it depends on how overvalued these illiquid shares are

[eithin] 17/10/2019 15:39

The Equity Income up near 1p today (Trustnet) 70.84p. Maybe get something, more than I was expecting.

[knowing] 17/10/2019 15:07

I see EVE just got a Woodford TR1

[pugugly] 17/10/2019 14:58

SpectoAcc - Thanks for coming back - So many posts recently had missed the previous clarification about the need to check the "other manager box"