WIN Plc Share Discussion Threads

[goonertone] 04/1/2010 11:23

Right, I have now had a quick scout round and from what I can tell the free float in WNN shares is now less than 30%. The list on the companys website goes up to 24th December



The additional 200k on 29th took the shares in institutional or directors hands to 7,202,235 or 70.92%.

All this adds up to a very volatile stock that will be impossible to buy in meaningful size when any news comes out or results/trading statements issued.

The Oxygen8 shareholding continues to intrigue me.

GT

[goonertone] 29/12/2009 11:35

Am going to try to do an updated share register today/tonight to see how many are left in free float.

GT

[goonertone] 29/12/2009 02:36

I can only see 2 reasons and both are good.

[value viper] 24/12/2009 09:53

very promising stuff. wonder what oxygen8's intentions are ?! Merry Xmas !

[goonertone] 24/12/2009 09:51

Break back over a £1.00 for the new year?

GT

[goonertone] 23/12/2009 13:31

VV

Up to just under 10% now. Like you say why would an apparent rival invest just short of £1 million in their competitor. Either of the scenarios seem an attractive reason to invest or hold. Either building a stake because they have industry knowledge of how Win are doing or they are building a stake for other strategic reasons eg cheaper to buy in market up to 30% than putting in an offer for the full amount at the price they know they will have to pay.

Interesting.

GT

[value viper] 21/12/2009 08:37

interesting investment from oxygen8 announced today - starter for 10 ? hadnt heard of them b4 and have just been nosing around their website - some clear business overlap.
Market seems to think so too !

[tomking2] 06/11/2009 18:34

Check this interview with Graham Rivers of Win:

[investinggarden] 19/10/2009 10:00

Buy recommendation from Growth Company Investor

[dalstal] 05/10/2009 13:22

asleep or not he recommended a buy obviously. dont follow him - friend does, just popped in to see how its doing

[spooky] 05/10/2009 08:55

Thanks goonertone i must have been asleep when i read the thread,good luck to all holders.

[goonertone] 05/10/2009 08:53

see post 107

[spooky] 05/10/2009 08:40

O.K. what's going on here;i sold all mine in the low 70's,i don't mind being wrong by a couple of pennies but 25% and building is not pretty.Looking at the trading i assume they have been tipped, any ideas where ?

[goonertone] 05/10/2009 08:11

Slow down chaps I haven't bought all the shares I wanted yet.

GT

[goonertone] 04/10/2009 19:02

Pudpud

I always find that WIN is a very difficult set of accounts to work through as sometimes there can be such a thing as to much info.

I think the company realised two or thee years ago that they needed to move away from the premium rate businesses that they had been born from as the regulation being brought in led to the decline in this traditional area. The acquisitions were meant to have sped this metamorphosis but has instead muddied the waters and they are only now getting to grips with the new look business.

New media is perhaps a misnomer as it is the oldest part of the business. It contains the bulk prenium rate business which although currently the biggest turnover only has a margin of about 10%. This business is on the wane other than in Greece who are still unregulated and will have less and less input. The new interactive services are also included here and are less turnover but more reliable revenue stream and higher margin.

The other two segments are what I invested for and they are finally reaching a point, profit wise, that they can carry the slowdown in the older business. The managed service division is the key. I believe that within 2 to 3 years the managed services division will be making enough profit on its own to cover the admin expenses that leaves the enterprise and new media profits to drop straight to the bottom line.

GT

[pudpud] 03/10/2009 15:52

rmilaree thanks for you comments.

It appears to be a bit of a puzzle that WIN are wrestling with. From their interims the bulk of the gross profit comes from Managed Services whereas New Media is by far the biggest revenue item (and probably where most of he trade receivables sit). I can understand that with the technologies involved the need to constantly re-invent is evident but as you say where is the profit. The new media section looks to be whatever it costs to produce is passed on to the customer with a little bit of profit. Apologies a bit of a ramble but hopefully it makes a little sense.

[rmillaree] 03/10/2009 12:07

Hello Pudpud

My view is i have no idea - there is good potential here some decent clients and a reasonable turnover that should be better quality than the old premium rated stuff which was very profitable but never going to last forever.

My concerns are - when will they start to generate good old fashioned profits from all of these contracts and turnover? In some respects things are always going to be hard building up a core customer base so they can spread the costs around the customers - once they do this there should be decent profits on any extra turnover.
Also do they focus enough on margins ? or are they just happy to get turnover so they all keep their jobs and if there is any extra use this to develop some new software.
If they do increase turnover and keep the lid on margins then there is great upside here.
I would be interested to know if aanyone has worked for or had dealing with the company - my thoughts are based on looking at the companies accounts each year which may not reflect the current situation/potential if they are better placed than the accounts suggest.

[pudpud] 02/10/2009 18:24

WNN received a big sell from Tom Bulford of RHPS today. 12 month target of 120p. Anyone any other views on this?

[value viper] 28/9/2009 12:08

good spot gooner. the fd buy is a def plus as director deals have been really lacking.

[goonertone] 28/9/2009 08:55

I notice that Arden have upped their rating from add to buy on 15th September and that Lance Moir the finance director picked up 10000 shares at 75p last week.

GT

[rmillaree] 21/9/2009 12:33

Thanks inv - i must have missed it twice.

Looks like any missing cash has been accounted for in Trade Receivables which are up from 9.1 million to 12.5 million.

[inv] 21/9/2009 11:01

Look a bit closer and you will see a balance sheet and cash flow statement

[rmillaree] 15/9/2009 13:06

Hello spooky

Strange i was going to have a look at the cash issue but i can't seem to see a balance sheet with the interims?
Is there a balance sheet to look at?

I would not normally be worried too much about cash conversion for this company but the cash is a bit low so maybe i should have a look back at last years final accounts. If they are providing normal payment terms to new corporate customers i would guess this would impact on cashflow - when compared to previous "premium service" income where they presumably get the cash almost immediately.

More of a concern is the difference between the EBITDA and the bottom line profit - i am not a great fan of the current method of inlcusing so many items as capital or exceptional in nature - i guess this is modern accounting standards for you.

I suspect this company needs to at some stage concentrate on profit margins rather than sales turnover - although i do appreciate this will be difficult until they reach a certain level of turnover.

[spooky] 15/9/2009 12:37

Key area of concern is the cash balance of £900k versus £3.3m. They say there were some late payers and this balance was £2.4m in September 2009. I believe them but...

Real or cash EBITDA was £840k (£1,063,000 in H1 2008) = -21% this is at least £400k short of what I would of expected and it is clear that no cost reduction has kicked in.

If we work backwards you will see what I mean

a. cash balance last year was £3.3m

b. assumed all new platform capex done in H1 - £1.3m – not true but work with the assumption

c. add back cash EBITDA £840k

d. expected cash balance £2.84m but accounts show £2.4m as of September – short fall of £400k

Based on the results I believe fair valuation, based on LBO model, 2xEBITDA plus cash = 2x1.7 + 3 = £6.4m or 64p per share previous valuation was 88p per share

Results are poor but key issue is where has the additional cash gone

[the big fella] 15/9/2009 11:51

I wouldn't have thought recommending a dividend would be on the cards if they were that concerned?