Watkin Jones Share Discussion Threads

[christw1234] 08/3/2023 13:39

Disco
I don't make the figures up and yes I have had dealings with WJ from where I draw my experience.
My source for the figures please check to confirm them
Equity and debt finance history analysis
Yahoo/Finance

[disc0dave45] 08/3/2023 13:06

ChrisNon of your numbers are from the latest balance sheet.Pmsl, no I don't work for WJG, but you do or have links with them don't you! - not expecting you to answer as you keep swerving difficult questions.Despite your constant postings about your experience, which I would normally respect, I have zero respect for someone that deliberately posts up false information in order to mislead people, tut tut.Goodbye

[christw1234] 08/3/2023 12:55

Disco
Glad we agree on something, just to clarify my figures are from the 2022 balance sheet.
I can only see a deterioration in their market cap since then.
I won't be buying any further shares in Wj
If you don't hold shares I think you work for them
Good luck

[disc0dave45] 08/3/2023 12:48

Hi hyDo you know if this has ever traded at its NAV?63p or 69p I'd be backing up the lorry tbh.

[disc0dave45] 08/3/2023 12:39

Chris
Your last post (2859) is fine, wouldn’t be surprised to see these fall further as well.
But your previous posting on their BS is complete BS (Bull Sh&@) and once again you’ve failed to support your statements or answer any direct questions.
I wish you well but me thinks you have a hidden agenda here. For the record I don’t hold here and I suspect you don’t either.
All the best and good luck.

[christw1234] 08/3/2023 12:37

Discodave45
In March 2022 WJ had a market capitalization of £557.7m
Today 8th March their market cap is £234m
I rest my case
It's all about confidence in the future of the Business to its Shareholders

[hybrasil] 08/3/2023 12:32

Disco
I spent some time at this a few months ago and I’m pretty happy with .63p

[disc0dave45] 08/3/2023 12:32

Chris
Non of your numbers are on the latest BS, I’ve even double checked their BS from their Annual Report to see if any changes were made.
You posted they had £89.2m of current liabilities, it’s £113m, and £167.8m of non current liabilities, it’s £96.8m. You said cash £44.7m, it’s £110.8m, and receivables £93.2m, it’s £28.6m.
You said their liabilities exceed their cash and receivables by £119.2m, you are completely incorrect. Apart from your numbers all being wrong you are also only picking some numbers anyway and not including all assets and liabilities.
Once again they have a NAV of £165m (their assets exceed liabilities) equivalent to 69p per share.

[christw1234] 08/3/2023 12:21

Discodave45
I think I know the WJ business model well, having followed them well before their IPO.
I personally know every site they have developed.
IMO I don't think WJ instil confidence in the investment of shares at present, and yes I think they have further to fall

[disc0dave45] 08/3/2023 11:58

ChrisDon't know where you are getting your numbers from!.From their FY 9/22 results announced 25th Jan 2023 (their latest numbers):Total liabilities £210m, Total assets £387m giving Net Assets of £177m (last yr £185m). It has Net Tangible Assets of £165m (NA less £12m of intangibles). Their assets, current plus non exceeds all their liabilities. Not only do they have cash and cash equivalents of £110m (don't know where your £44.7m came from!), but they also have a £100m RCF which they've only drawn circa £25m, plus they have undrawn bank overdraft of £10m, thus they have £196m of total cash and available facilities.Their Net Tangible Asset value represents a very decent 70% of their market cap, which is ample asset backing IMO.

[hybrasil] 08/3/2023 11:23

Nav is roughly 63p a share. I believe with further interest rate rises likely that this is worth less than nav. Obviously if they can sell their produce I ll take a different view. In their presentation they are hopeful that things will pick up in the latter half of 2023. That’s a very short timescale.

[christw1234] 08/3/2023 11:00

Davedisco45
How healthy is Watkin Jones Balance Sheet?
According to the latest balance sheet.
WJ had liabilities of UK £89.2m due in twelve months and liabilities of UK£ 167.8m due beyond 12 months.
Offsetting this, it had Uk£44.7m in cash and Uk£93.2 of receivables that were due within 12 months.So it's liabilities outweigh the sum of its cash and (near-term) receivables by Uk£119.2m

[disc0dave45] 07/3/2023 19:08

ChrisNet cash was £33.5m when also deducting lease liabilities.Net assets £177m.Would still contend they have a strong balance sheet.As Hybrasil mentions, could see them cutting the div again (they already reduced 10%) but my main concern is the Building Safety provision not being enough, have less concerns over liabilities.

[christw1234] 07/3/2023 19:00

Hybrazil
I agree with you Wj CEO investment presentation was pretty flat and downbeat, compared with the upbeat growth presentation from Unites CEO

[christw1234] 07/3/2023 18:53

Discodave45
As I have already said that if the Wj margins earnings are watered down this will have ramifications on their ability to pay down liabilities, which will have an adverse effect on their balance sheet

[hybrasil] 07/3/2023 18:18

Christ

Is it the lack of sales ?

Or will they have to pull the dividend?

[disc0dave45] 07/3/2023 17:32

ChrisAre you a politician?, you never answer any direct questions! :)Their balance sheet is fine, no worries there IMO.Think we will have to simply agree to disagree as I'm getting a tad frustrated that you never provide answers or clarity - contradictions abound, no offence and all the best.

[christw1234] 07/3/2023 17:12

Discodave45
I agree, I believe that Cost Inflation and a rapid rise in interest rates have sucked the air out of Wj.
Another profit warning will be a problem for investors' confidence.
I worry about the strength of the WJ balance sheet if that happens
I think the shares will be in the doldrums for the foreseeable future
I wish you well with your investments
ATB

[disc0dave45] 07/3/2023 16:50

"I don't think that would be very professional for the company"Do you work for WJG?Can't say I'd agree as I don't know what you perceive to be the major issue here.....again, sorry but why suggest "hold", that implies to me that you feel all the bad news is already priced in and this won't go much lower - which is what I believe too.I don't disagree that their margins are at risk and if we are to face higher inflation for longer then another profit warning could be forthcoming, but that applies to virtually 99% (anecdotal) of listed businesses!.Have a good evening.

[christw1234] 07/3/2023 16:27

Discodave45
All the best, with my experience in the PBSA sector IMO, unite is of stronger stock with more firepower than WJ.
If I told you the major reason for my negativity towards WJ you would probably agree, however, I don't want to publish on this platform, I don't think that would be very professional for the company

[disc0dave45] 07/3/2023 14:52

Sorry but UTG earnings are not forecast to grow, on the contrary they are forecast to halve. Not being funny but you don't half seem to contradict yourself a lot - model and business here was strong a few days ago, then the model is broken, you advise "hold" but would sooner invest in UTG, don't understand your logic tbh.Anyway we each have differing views so all the best.

[christw1234] 07/3/2023 11:37

IMO WJ business was okay with low interest rates.
Their model is very Lumpy and speculative from site acquisition through to practical competition.
It’s costing 6% forward funding interest as opposed to 3% prior to the mini-budget
Unite the gap between the share price and the Net asset value has narrowed to 3%.97% of their debt is hedged.
Reservations of 83% next year are ahead of any historic norm.
Unite has committed to four schemes which will cost about £200m to complete, easily funded from existing cash and available a debt of around twice that figure on the balance sheet.
With sold stable income-producing assets to sell, I am sure which shares I would sooner hold for growth.

[hybrasil] 07/3/2023 10:53

I agree and don’t hold utg but in my opinion and it is only that when the market cops the significance of the situation here that it will be marked down.
That again in my opinion will be the time to buy

[disc0dave45] 07/3/2023 10:43

That's why their (UTG) earnings are forecast to halve and they are trading at a whopping 15x sales and has £1.3bn of debt.Whereas an asset light model (WJG) has earnings forecast to increase 90% and has cash on the books - know which one I'd prefer.