Victrex Share Discussion Threads

[energyi] 12/5/2005 14:57

Nope.

Buying the investments from the trust,
to help them liquidate

[benw99] 12/5/2005 14:56

you could certainly approach manager asking to be notified when estates are seeking to offload. is that what you mean? Also what is the tax query regarding buying in the secondary market in the quotes bit in the header I may be able to clarify.

[energyi] 12/5/2005 14:55

Spin doctor - 19 Jan'02 - 12:18 - 16 of 24

What are ADVFNers up to re: VCTs this year?

VCT market is subdued, reflecting low gains to shelter. Several VCTs comment that the price demanded by businesses for a stake is much lower than last year - surprise, surprise.

NAVs of all VCTs have fallen, especially those with significant quoted and/or tech exposure. Any underlying growth in "intrinsic value", whatever that is, has been masked through a lack of exit opportunities.

No rush to invest this year - all have a good way to go before full subscription.

Quester 5, Baronsmead 4, Northern 3, Unicorn AIM and maybe Oxford Tech 3 are where my money's heading - generally well established in the VCT field, decent historical returns, nothing too fancy or focussed. Gartmore looks weak; Pathway has been slated (though treatment looks a bit harsh to me - I won't be investing in it however). This year there are no more conservative, income-seeking VCTs (such as Harvest last year, which failed to make its minimum).

Charts etc.
Sym Company====== Price MnShs MktCap -NAV- .Disc
BNS Baronsmead 4 : 92.0 32.9 £30.27m 96.71 - 4.9%
NTN Northern 3.. : 87.0 31.2 £27.14m 94.90 - 8.3%
OXT Oxford Tech? : 70.5 4.85 £ 3.42m 112.0 -35.7%
QUV Quester 5... : 84.5 26.2 £22.18m 92.70 - 8.8%
UAV Unicorn AIM. : 93.0 49.9 £46.37m 107.0 -13.1%
... Harvest ???? : failed to make minimum

..Baronsmead4 (BNS).. : .. Northern 3 (NTN)... : .Oxford Tech (OXT)..: .. Questor 5 (QUV)...

..Unicorn AIM (UAV).. :

[energyi] 12/5/2005 14:54

Not Quite...

How about approaching the managers,
and buying out some of their investments?

[benw99] 12/5/2005 14:53

ah ok i get ya

[energyi] 12/5/2005 14:53

LET's SEE HOW THESE DID...

"My current preferences (Spin doctor - 07 Mar'01)
AIM : Artemis
"Old economy", lower risk: Harvest
Non-AIM specialist sector: Proven Media
Non-AIM generalist: Close technology and General

Remember these are long, long term holdings - 5 years minimum, maybe 10 to be sure. And they are perceived as high risk - certainly the individual investments within them are, but collectively they are a hell of a lot safer than some of the portfolios on this BB, I should think.
(source thread: )

Charts etc.
Sym Company====== Price MnShs MktCap -NAV- .Disc
AAV Artemis AIM. : 94.0 48.1 £45.20m 101.0 -
CNG Close Tech&G : 108. 14.8 £15.93m 104.0 +
... Harvest ???
PVM Proven Media : 98.0 6.77 £ 6.63m 109.0 -
VCT Victrex..... : 425. 81.3 £ 344.m 90.96 +...

...ArtemisAIM (AAV).. : ..Close Tech&G (CNG).. : .Proven Media (PVM). : ....Victrex (VCT)....

[energyi] 12/5/2005 14:51

Curry,
How did you get on in this sector?

Buy any? Make any return yet?

[energyi] 12/5/2005 14:50

energyi - 12 May'05 - 14:47 - 6 of 6

My idea of an opportunity here is a little different that what is
being "sold".

I am very unlikely to buy into a new fund

MORE:

[benw99] 12/5/2005 14:50

looking for discounts to nav? I nearly set up such a service. Obviously pay particular attention to exactly they are valuing their unquoteds.

[energyi] 12/5/2005 14:47

My idea of an opportunity here is a little different that what is
being "sold".

I am very unlikely to buy into a new fund

[benw99] 12/5/2005 14:45

lol! misseling scandal on the cards re liquidity imo.

[energyi] 12/5/2005 14:40

Scam-maker Brown must love this sector.

He pushes up tax rates, by tranaparent and stealth measures,
they creates a huge tax incentive for a sector (like this).
All the scam-merchants and financial-incompetents rush out products.
Tax-avoiding dollars flow in, and the sheep get fleeced.

Predicatble, so predictable,and Gord Brown thinks he is encouraging
"enterprise" when what he is really doing is making it easy for
promotional scam-artists

'orrible!

[benw99] 12/5/2005 14:32

my pic, Unicorn - that Webb is a crafty chap. Gets all the best smaller company dealflow, and often uses his muscle to exclude the other vcts. dyor etc.

[energyi] 12/5/2005 14:21

NEW ones??

Aberdeen Growth Opportunities VCT 2 plc
AiM VCT2 Top Up
Arc Growth Company VCT plc
British Smaller Companies plc
Core VCT I & II plc
Downing Protected VCT II & III plc
Eclipse VCT 2
Elderstreet VCT 'C' Shares
Electra Kingsway VCT 2 plc
First State Investments AIM VCT plc
Foresight Technology 2 VCT plc
Ingenious Music VCT plc
Keydata Income VCT 1 & 2 plc
Matrix Income & Growth VCT plc
Neptune - Calculus Income & Growth VCT plc
Northern 3 VCT plc (5th top up)
Northern AIM VCT plc
Oxford Technology 4 VCT plc
Pennine AIM VCT 5 plc
Phoenix VCT plc 'C' Shares
ProVen VCT plc
Puma VCT & Puma VCT II plc
Quester VCT 5 plc
Rensburg Aim VCT plc
Sitka Health Fund VCT plc 'C1' Shares
Triple Point VCT plc
Unicorn AIM VCT II plc
Ventus VCT plc

@:

Prspectus link:

[energyi] 12/5/2005 14:10

List of VCTs...

Advent
Artemis...
CPV and CVC
Guinness Flight VCT (GFV) -
Northern 2 NVT
Pennine Aim PAV
Phoenix PHX

Sym Company====== Price MnShs MktCap -NAV- .Disc
MVC Murray VCT.. : 22.5 28.3 £ 6.37m 36.40 -38.2%
MRV Murray VCT 2 : 29.5 35.5 £10.47m 43.50 -32.2%
MYV Murray VCT 3 : 35.5 39.9 £14.18m 56.10 -36.7%
MUV Murray VCT 4 : 48.5 37.7 £18.31m 73.70 -34.2%

[energyi] 12/5/2005 14:01

Good idea or not? ...
Money tied up for 3 years plus,in return for tax benefits:
Depends on what happens to Capital Values, I suppose- How's the record?

Comments from the Old thread:
"note... budget 04, tax status changed, 40% income relief, no CGT.."
"You get £600 back if you first invest £1000."
"Why ever sell a VCT? Just wait for the enormous special tax free divis and reconcile yourself to a possible loss on the capital value of the VCT. Hopefully the divi payments within a 4-6 year period will exceed the original purchase price of the VCT (and remember HMG has put in 60p for every 40p you have put in), if you are a patient type of investor and are a 40% tax payer with CG liabilities, it really is a no-brainer. "
"trouble is, the very great majority of vcts have proved to be pretty rubbish at paying out their special divis, but pretty good at seeing their unlisted investments shrink or be written off"
"Using the comparative search engine on the Moneyextra site indicates that, over a 3-year timespan, only 4 VCT's have shown any growth at all and over 5 years that only increases to 8 VCT's in total. More to the point, had you chosen one of the 10 worst-performing VCT's you would have lost 60-72% of your investment over 3 years and 40-64% over the past 5 years."
" The average performance of the "Top performing" VCT's (according to IC table), is -2.6%.... begs the question what are the worst like ?"

There could be some opportunities in buying these cheap in the secondary market after the three year period is complete.

I want to post some charts

Spin Dr's 2001 Picks + Victrex
Sym Company====== Price MnShs MktCap -NAV- .Disc
AAV Artemis AIM. : 94.0 48.1 £45.20m 101.0 -
CNG Close Tech&G : 108. 14.8 £15.93m 104.0 +
... Harvest ???? : failed to make minimum
PVM Proven Media : 98.0 6.77 £ 6.63m 109.0 -
VCT Victrex..... : 425. 81.3 £ 344.m 90.96 +...

...ArtemisAIM (AAV).. : ..Close Tech&G (CNG).. : .Proven Media (PVM). : ....Victrex (VCT)....

- -

Spin Dr's 2002 Picks
Sym Company====== Price MnShs MktCap -NAV- .Disc
BNS Baronsmead 4 : 92.0 32.9 £30.27m 96.71 - 4.9%
NTN Northern 3.. : 87.0 31.2 £27.14m 94.90 - 8.3%
OXT Oxford Tech? : 70.5 4.85 £ 3.42m 112.0 -35.7% ??no.3?
QUV Quester 5... : 84.5 26.2 £22.18m 92.70 - 8.8%
UAV Unicorn AIM. : 93.0 49.9 £46.37m 107.0 -13.1%

..Baronsmead4 (BNS).. : .. Northern 3 (NTN)... : .Oxford Tech (OXT)..: .. Questor 5 (QUV)...

..Unicorn AIM (UAV).. :



BAD EXAMPLES
3 out of 4??
March 24, 2005
Murray VCT plc, Murray VCT 2 plc, Murray VCT 3 plc and Murray VCT 4 plc announce that they have reviewed the future management of the four Trusts' portfolios with Close Venture Management Limited and Murray Johnstone Limited.

As previously announced, Close Venture Management Limited will take over
management of the portfolios of Murray VCT, Murray VCT 2 and Murray VCT 3. It is now expected that the handover to Close Venture Management Limited will take
place as soon as practicable.

Murray VCT 4 announced on February 8 that it had served notice of termination on Murray Johnstone Limited which was to expire in six months.

Sym Company====== Price MnShs MktCap -NAV- .Disc
MVC Murray VCT.. : 22.5 28.3 £ 6.37m 36.40 -38.2%
MRV Murray VCT 2 : 29.5 35.5 £10.47m 43.50 -32.2%
MYV Murray VCT 3 : 35.5 39.9 £14.18m 56.10 -36.7%
MUV Murray VCT 4 : 48.5 37.7 £18.31m 73.70 -34.2%

...Murray VCT (MVC).. : ......VCT2 (MRV)..... : ......VCT3 (MYV)..... : ......VCT4 (MUV).....


= = =

SECONDARY MARKET: Demand may be limited because:

(EdmundSS - 2 Jul'03 - 16:36 - 6 of 132: Existing VCT thread):

"It certainly used to be the case that the CGT deferral only applied to new VCT subscriptions, and not to VCT shares purchased in the secondary market. See , at the bottom of the 4th page. The original 5 year minimum was dropped to 3 years (top of 1st page), but I think the "new ordinary shares" bit has been retained."
Best to confirm with a tax accountant...

"Ive recently noticed several VCT's have been buying back their own shares for cancellation. Not sure if its just started, or ive only just noticed."

"An investor dies - executors who have no clue on VCTs attempt to sell a large block of shares. MM refuses to accept the trade which is outside the NMS and then marks them down with an increased spread so that the VCT cannot buy them back within the range they are allowed. Executors go away and think and come back to find that they have to dribble them out to the MM at very low prices. Once they have all been sold the MM marks them up again and narrows the spread. Suggest you watch for a succession of small trades at (possibly) lower and lower prices - wait for the spread to narrow and then think of buying

Call me an old cynic - but I have seen this quite often over the years - I don't like it and have talked to a few trusts about this but they don't seem to want to do anything about it. However it can result in a buying opportunity at the expense of someone else's serious misfortune." (per: A0002577 - 24 Oct'03)





= = = = =
LINKS:
Existing VCT thread:
CP's EIS thread....:
Spin Dr's thread...:
...his 2001 picks..:
...his 2002 picks..:
MVC thread.........:
Tax Advice.........:
Allenbridge advice.:
....Prospectuses...:
Fool Board on VCT's:

[blueflame] 01/4/2005 11:30

Supprised that no one cares about this one, reched a new all time high on todays earning enhancing aquisition and up nearly 50% since November. Looks like it may just carry on up un-noticed...

[valhamos] 05/3/2005 21:45

Spin doctor

Thanks for that. Very helpful to my current analysis. Also I wasn't aware of Cavendish, the discounts look very attractive.

[spin doctor] 04/3/2005 23:59

Yep, performance of many VCTs has been poor, for several reasons, but things are looking up. 40% tax relief is a bonus, but many new issues - and some in the 2ndary market - look good and modest risk investments without the upfront tax relief. A bunch of funds have launched this year, many without a track record and destined to be small in size and high on charges, so beware.

For buyers of new funds, these have to be considered 5-15 year investments. For dealers in the 2ndary market, as noted above, beware spreads and liquidity.

Discounts available on subscription are probably the greatest via Cavendish (www.cavendishonline.co.uk); they also refund some trail commission.

Quality funds probably include:
Generalist: Baronsmead, Close Income and Growth, Electra Kingsway, Matrix Income
Specialist: Foresight 2 (tech), Oxford Tech 4 (tech) and Ventus (windmills!)

I've not mentioned any AIM funds, as it seems to me that a wall of money hitting AIM from 04/05 and 05/06 VCTs may drive prices way too high on the way in, with the bubble bursting just as funds are seeking a way out. Seems to be some evidence of this the last 3 months, with AIM surging ahead of all other indices. Of course this could play into the hands of non-AIM VCTs seeking an exit over the next couple of years, so my money's staying clear of AIM VCTs this year.

[currypasty] 28/2/2005 14:30

Company: FORESIGHT 2 VCT PLC

Description: Foresight 2 VCT plc is a Venture Capital Trust ("VCT") that will
invest mainly in development stage unquoted UK technology-based companies with
the aim of providing a stream of tax free distributions to Investors from trade
sales and flotations.

Whilst it is important to remember that past performance is not necessarily a
guide to future performance and may not be repeated, Investors in the first fund
advised by VCF, Fleming Ventures Limited, had four times their original
investment returned.

An initial investment of 100p in their second fund, Foresight Technology VCT plc
"O" share fund, has produced a Total Return of 244p before taking account of any
tax rebate on the initial investment. This makes the Foresight "O" share fund
the best performing of any VCT since its launch. The Foresight "C" share fund is
still at the investing stage and although it is showing a negative return to
date, VCF is optimistic about its prospects.*

The 2004 Finance Act increased the up-front income tax relief available to
individuals investing in a VCT from 20% to 40%, making VCTs one of the more tax
efficient investment products available to UK investors. By obtaining VCT
status, Foresight 2 will enable an Investor who pays income tax to receive up to
40% of his or her investment back in the form of an income tax rebate.

The minimum investment in Foresight 2 VCT is £2,500 and you will find the
application form on page 25 of the prospectus.

Sector: Investment Companies

Market: Main

Minimum Investment: £2500

Closing Date: 5 April 2005

[hooo flungdung] 26/2/2005 14:11

indeed, tax relief will not be given for any losses arising on disposal

[david77] 26/2/2005 13:56

#120 "to clarify - no cgt to pay on any uplift in value from sale of vct shares whether bought as part of a new issue or in 'second hand' market."

And, I suspect, that you cannot use losses to reduce CGT incurred elsewhere.