Versarien Share Discussion Threads

[woodpeckers] 20/4/2018 12:51

I have never known sentiment swing from highs to lows for no apparent reason quite as rapidly as it does on this BB!

And they say women are moody!

[rovi70] 20/4/2018 12:43

As a clever man wrote:- Anxiety being what happens when we unconsciously project the worst of yesterday on to the best of tomorrow

[tini5] 20/4/2018 12:12

Lovat - agree.

Large companies for their own compliance and peace of mind will most likely seek to engage in contracts with companies that are ISO accredited. Certainly when I worked for a consultancy company, most customers insisted on ISO quality accreditation before they would even negotiate.

[grabster] 20/4/2018 12:05

Graphene 2018


"The 8th edition of Graphene Conference series, the largest European Event in Graphene and 2D Materials, will be organized in Dresden (Germany) from the 26th until the 29th of June 2018. Over the past 7 editions, the Graphene Conference strengthened its position as the main meeting point of the Graphene community Worldwide."

(Not sure if that's so - but thought it maybe worth a mention..)
Andrea Ferrari is listed as one of the keynote speakers.
Zina Jarrahi Cinker listed as invited.

[lovat scout] 20/4/2018 12:03

Tini5 - I think that ISO could be the catalyst for deals to be concluded.

[tini5] 20/4/2018 11:56

Unfortunately Festario is correct - whilst the share price is now lower than when the LOI was announced, were it now to transpire that China was off, the share price would tank, although I suspect not as low as 20 but I think you'd certainly see it down into the mid 40s and then pull back into the low 50s.

That's because most people are lemmings I'm afraid - whilst you rationally know that the share price doesn't have China priced in, a huge swathe of holders will rush for the door were it to be announced that it was not going ahead.

The irony is that one of the collaborations announced within the last six months, when converted to a supply agreement, would likely increase the share price way beyond where it currently sits, without China even taking place.

The only "logic" to the stock market is that long term weight will always trump short term sentiment.

Personally, I think we'll see ISO accreditation and perhaps a supply agreement before China comes to pass - just a hunch.

China will happen, I don't see anyone else in the market that can deliver what they want, other than VRS and I've no doubt Neill will deliver the best possible deal for VRS and shareholders.

[spike_1] 20/4/2018 11:52

1) Neill was so right not to want to tell us about China in the first place (got forced into it).

2) Fes as a number of others have said, you either need to reduce your holding to reduce your blood pressure / anxiety level, OR IMO give this BB a break.

I'm being really serious now: what if you had not had a hangover the other day when we dipped to 59? You would have been all over this BB spreading doom and gloom, most likely resulting in sufficient rapid selling by some others resulting in your 'nightmare' 55 to have come true. WHAT THEN? Do I need to spell it out - no I don't think so.

Best wishes - Mike

[lovat scout] 20/4/2018 11:51

Sorry if I'm stating the obvious but the short term market price moves of any share reflect the supply/demand imbalances at that point in time and any news around it rather than the long term prospects for the company. This applies to all listed companies, large or small. Clearly very good or bad news results in a basis change but then we revert to the usual short term noise.

Personally I would rather invest in a company that spends its cash on R&D and investing in staff, plant etc. than PR/IR at this point. When VRS has matured into a business with tangible prospects that can be translated into revenue forecasts etc., that is the time to invest in PR/IR and shout about it from the roof tops.......and we can reap the rewards of our patience.

Growth company CEOs that spend scarce resources on micro-managing the share price are usually drinking in the last chance saloon.

[richardc77] 20/4/2018 11:20

Irony? Festario I merely comment to your continual negativity swings, note I don’t mention you or Club unless you’re being repetitively negative or Club when he’s being a moron on Twitter. If you both stop doing so, you’d barely see me, however I feel I need to comment so other saner investors don’t lose heart or take you too seriously ...

As a big shareholder I’d expect more reason from you and far less “flapping̶1; and more sound investing methods (ie if you’re continually unhappy about the China deal, derisk!)

There are plenty of other largish holders here in the hundreds of thousands and more (Mike B, Super G, Me for eg) who do not continually moan, myself because I remain happy that Neill is doing all he can do, what else do you expect from him? But if I did become unhappy I would sell at least part of my holding, especially as the general markets and sentiment will continue to be bumpy for some time,

I expect you must know all this really, because I don’t believe you are a fool, better take a look in the mirror, man up or perhaps ship out?

Trust me it’s not an attack or meant to be personal.

[chillpill] 20/4/2018 11:17

Festario. Your body language is shouting you are in too deep.

[festario] 20/4/2018 11:17

Oh the irony Richard.75 percent of your posts, moan about me!But seeing as you won't filter me, I'll do the honours.

[grabster] 20/4/2018 11:17

Not just rubber car tyres that grapheme will impact of course - there's a whole host of uses in which enhancement of rubber recipes will excite manufacturers. And there's a big annual rubber expo takes place in China:

'The 18th International Exhibition On Rubber Technology'
Shanghai New International Expo Centre, September 19-21, 2018.



Categories:


--------------------------------------------
and in Milan, Italy, every 3 years, including this year;
PLAST 2018 - 29 May - 1st June


-------------------------------------------------

13-15 June 2018 'Rubber & Tyre Vietnam' Ho Chi Min City.

(not a big one)

--------------------------------------------------

CHINAPLAS 2018 - next week
April 24-27, 2018 at National Exhibition and Convention Center (Shanghai) (NECC), China.


--------------------------------------
in the Czech Republic, 1-5 October 2018


---------------------------------
next week

Tires & Rubber Expo 24-27 Apr 2018
 Expocentre, Moscow, Russia
(not a big one)
-------------------------------------
next month in India

Asia Rubber Expo 04-06 May
 Pragati Maidan, New Delhi, India



------------------------------------

next month - 'OMAN PLAST'

"International Plastics, Rubber, Chemicals, Printing & Packaging Industry Exhibition"
 07-09 May 2018  Oman Convention & Exhibition Centre, Muscat, Oman

----------------------------------------------------------------------

and dozens of others..

Although several of them feature categories that include chemical ingredients, most include little or no mention of graphene - yet. I wouldn't expect Versarien to be participating alone at any of these shows - but this small sample of what's out there shows how busy an industry it is. Oqema presumably have fingers in some pies.

[richardc77] 20/4/2018 11:13

It’s not an attack, if you think it is you must be a snowflake ;)

Merely pointing out the pointlessness of continually mentioning something on the bb which you or anyone here has any control over is rather pointless. Surely you must know that really....why not moan to someone elsewhere?

To add, why wait to sell for 50s, if you have little confidence re the deal, derisk some now and then be less stressed every day?

[festario] 20/4/2018 11:09

Just before I bob you back on filter Richard, which I really didn't want to do, but your constant attacks demand it....I actually was about to implement my strategy (defensive strategy) and start selling if the price fell into the 50s. I was going to sell in order to realise an average price of hopefully 55pSo on Weds morning, due to a hangover from the previous night's darts tournament I slept in.When I woke up at 10ish, I saw that the share price had recovered from a dip to 59p.I think I dodged a real bullet there, and maybe many of you did too.Perhaps there is an upside to having a hangover!

[ridicule] 20/4/2018 10:59

SuperG Re your IMM comments. One punts before news day on a binary bet then reaps the benefit or covers the drop! Standard punting practice. I punted lost, covered the drop, buying sufficient shares to get me back into profit on a 50% retrace. I am now in profit. However, I am still holding on. Another punt, because the drug had absolutely no adverse affects, allowing room for increased dosage and there remains a crying need for an effective Lupus drug.

Coming back to VRS you have posted in the last few days.

"There is no need for PR Newspaper articles, such as the Times article, because the industry that matters are lining up with NDAs and Collaborations are beginning to flow." You also say most of the general public do not understand or know about VRS."

First the PR should not be aimed at the Industry, it should be aimed at unaware investors, given the conviction of many on this Board that VRS are a hidden gem with the greatest potential of any Graphene based Company. This should be shouted from the roof tops as it isn't BS!

Second, most of us who raise some observations on VRS share price management and get vilified, are bright enough to read your excellent research and understand it, even if we are described in a quite disparaging way, (not by you) of being too old. You seem to think many of us do not understand the VRS unique position?

My post 7300 gave my thoughts on the investment day, and I remain concerned at the lack of information on how the collaborations were set up. NR advised the big players were using the Catapult Agencies and they would pick up the Nanene orders from that process. When I ran my Company, every collaboration had an agreed set of KPIs that each partner was committed to meet; a timescale for commercial action (predicted sales and an order of magnitude of those sales). This set the priority that the collaboration plan had in the two company's business plans and helped with the financial forecasting and cashflow predictions.

NR could have outlined these factors covering all of the collaborations without breaching any detailed confidentiality and giving us a much better idea of how things were likely to unfold. The fact that he didn't, indicates he has left the whole process with the Catapults and will react if something emerges. This is underlined by NR's statement that he does not know which Collaboration will produce first (no defined funnel) and that the last one is always the most exciting (he may be right on the Tyres). VRS may well be too small to do otherwise, but as an investor with the share price in the mid to high 80s at the time, it was a cause for concern. Investing is about using time as a commodity, (your money should be working all the time); value preservation (the 5 bagging VRS experience since November) should be preserved as far as possible and those that were late to the party £1 plus should not be hit unecessarily; trading a good share (VRS) is always undesireable and the NOMAD and management should do what they can, (PR, trading statements) to ensure investors are not put in that position to manage such risk.

Having said all this, the probability of something falling out for VRS is rising as each week passes the China news becomes more likely (pray for no Black Swan)so the share price shoud stabilise.

I have traded; IMM, TERN and N4 Pharma using 15% of my VRS holdings, selling in the low 80s; mid 70s and some at 67p. I am now covered for the time being on IMM, I have made very big profits on Tern (£40k) and I have sold half of N4 Pharma at a 35% profit and this is sitting as cash. I would have preferred not to have done the trading, but VRS have not taken any steps to manage their share price. Any company director is correct when they say the market determines the share price, not them, but I think it is amajor shortcoming not to have written the VRS story in a number of investment magazines and newspapers.

[chillpill] 20/4/2018 10:53

FWIW I see China as a 50% probability deal.

In many ways I would prefer it wasn't in the mix but that is just me.

There are so many irons in the fire the China might be an unnecessary distraction.

[superg1] 20/4/2018 10:53

Who on here has a Mrs that when the share price drops so materially say "It is what it is".

My Mrs is about as far as you can get from the laid back type, yet she says that.

She says it because she knows how much I research and what I have dug up that is not on here or ever will be.

Others do the same it's not just me with solid info on here, then as time goes on we find each other.

Not inside whispers and all that false rubbish, just plain old putting the mileage in and building a knowledge base around facts not fiction.

That old saying which is highly relevant to most AIM shares. Why spoil a good story with the facts.

I've looked at many shares and just hours in sometime lies stand out a mile and get worse of you go deeper. No point telling PIs they have fingers in ears going la la la la, you are shorting crook etc.

I told a major holder privately about one, invited me to discuss it with the BOD (I did by email) and then threatened me with libel, I thought F you then I tried to help and I got that. He lost a lot of money, hey ho, he should have listened, I handed it to him on a plate.

[festario] 20/4/2018 10:47

All these red trades over 68p are buys by the way.

[superg1] 20/4/2018 10:43

mnomis

I know it's easy to say but I never post anything I think is untrue. It's not in my DNA. If I'm speculating or guessing I say so in the post, but then that guessing is normally around circumstances or events going on.

EG no one I know thought Allianz were selling, not even VRS but the cries of selling at the time had me printing at them and it was proven some time later.

Last month with the 25k sells due to the nature of them it was obviously likely to be a PI with large holding and we called it as such. We now know one at least was and now other evidence other than confessions supports that.

Many times I say things with confidence and some post with "You can't say that".

I can I just can't say why I've said it.

It's called keeping your contacts and sources, and unless I know the source inside out I treat it with extreme caution.

If you see it in black and white or saw it directly then there can be no doubt.

[chillpill] 20/4/2018 10:42

Festario sounds like you need to sell all or part of your 1m shares.

If the Chinese deal isn't right best NR walks away

[ellissj] 20/4/2018 10:32

Every collab signed before jan and esp since, derisks the share price and the companies prospects of the chance that china doesn't happen imo. 20p. I don't see that. The tech is derisked. Better to come 'amazing test results.' What would weigh heavy is a bad deal. Therefore logically, as has been advised, we await news of a good win/win deal. Aimo. Dyor. Best ellis.

[festario] 20/4/2018 10:30

I'm afraid it doesn't work like that.Just hark back to the days when we were in IOF, we never got a rise on the rumour of new IOF plants opening, or the water deal getting done. But if a rumour of it not happening broke, we tumbled....Then, when the self same thing was RNS'd, we'd spike down again.No one want this to succeed for than me, but I'm seeking an update. (still)

[ashehzi] 20/4/2018 10:30

only if stock market works on logic.