Vantis Share Discussion Threads

[still waiting] 10/12/2008 18:24

similar to TNO but I prefer them as they beefed up their insolvency dept. at just the right time.

[lapiteau] 10/12/2008 18:20

Agreeable

If this was a question of working capital, would not the board vote to each buy further shares proportional to their current holdings.

I personally can't see that Jackson would be prepared to prop up the entire business on his own when his fellow directors sit on the side-lines, especially when it is those people who should be put under some additional pressure to get through this next period.

I am no expert, but this is not a one man show!

Any views?

Lap

[agreeable] 09/12/2008 12:21

Yes BDO is Stoy Hayward, they have a big corporate recovery business, the problem with this kind of business is fees come at the end, therefore working capital put under heavier strain
As I said in earlier posting I admire Jacksons' bottle in buying new shares, but I fear they are buying because of a lack of working capital.

[romi2nikki1] 08/12/2008 15:55

Redundancies







Do any of the above companies enjoy the same amount of recovery work as VTS? Sorry I have no idea.

Noteworthy that BDO had a very good year on the sort of business, that it is unlikely to get next year. Could lack of forseeable corporate finance work, be the reason for some redundancies?

Dont know anything about the culture or corporate structure of the big partnerships, but hopefully VTS is nimbler, i.e. non partners more likely to be more flexible. Just employees, who go to it. Sorry, I really have no idea, but VTS are a people businesses.

[romi2nikki1] 08/12/2008 15:39

Is BDO Stoy H?. No idea who PKF are! Anyway who have they made redundant? Business Consultants perhaps!

Business n Profesional Services , does this inc recruitment companies?

[egoi] 08/12/2008 15:19

Yes but not in the most recent accounts for 2007,released in July.

As I said nowadays there are no such qualifications in the latest accounts despite your, imho, evasively worded post, which might easily be misread by unwary investors imho, as implying some current issue.

recent updates have been positive and the new insolvency division I suspect will be flourishing. And Directors have been investing heavily recently.

So I imagine all told things are rather good, all the signs are cetainly very positive I believe. If the market stays stable as it has been recently VTS I'm confident will flourish, and no indication of working capital issues agreeable still bangs on about, aka scaremongering imho.. -;)

[agreeable] 08/12/2008 10:11

egoi, just for the record the VTS accounts received a going concern note from the auditors having breached banking covenants, an extraordinary event for a firm of Chartered Accountants, this was in good times so imagine hw things are now. In the last three weeks we have seen BDO, PKF and Grant Thornton all announcing redundancies, today CBI published the following:
'Business and professional services firms experienced the steepest declines in the volume and value of their business, profitability and staff numbers in the three months to November since business lobby group the CBI launched the quarterly service sector survey in 1998. '
The VTS control of working capital and cash generation was never good and at times like this it could be terminal

[egoi] 05/12/2008 16:12

Romi2nikki1 just to put the record straight. There was concern around one set of accounts a year or two ago which VTS comfortably dealt with and which I did mention way back when; since then agreeable has banged on about it ad nauseam (and I accept covenants are a very important issue) but VTS certainly imho has had not the semblance of a problem recently and I have no current worries atall on that score, so the record gets cleaned up about my view as of now.

I note VTS is up today on a day when the wider market is taking nother hit.

[romi2nikki1] 05/12/2008 14:04

Are VTS banking covenants stated in the last set of accounts? I did see a mention of them when trawling the net. Anyway, having the covenants set out, is a lot better than one gets from some 250 companies.

Begbies who depend on mostly on recovery work, have managed for years on very tight working capital.

[agreeable] 04/12/2008 10:57

as egoi suggested my immediate concern is that VTS stood to breach banking covenants, or could not make scheduled repayments unless this new money was subscribed.
Whilst I applaud Jackson's bottle I trust that this does not turn out to be a futile gesture.
While they talk about a balanced portfolio we all know that the problem with business recovery work is that the accountants do not get paid until the end, therefore there is huge pressure on working capital.
For most professional practices this would not be a concern because in better times they would have built up some working capital reserves. The problem now is that VTS were already stretched and now become more so.
We await the preliminary announcement......

[egoi] 14/11/2008 10:30

CEO investing over 2 million in the company!

Looks superb news to me; though no doubt the resident moaner will find something negative in a CEO investing over 2 million in his company!

But maybe this once even he will be able to acknowledge something which looks so very good? :lol:

Vantis announces today that all of the Company's directors, together with some senior employees, have reinvested the proceeds of their final dividend (paid on 3 November 2008) by subscribing for, in aggregate, 385,116 new ordinary shares of 10p in the Company ('New Ordinary Shares'). In addition, Paul Jackson has invested a further £2 million by subscribing for an additional 2,640,264 New Ordinary Shares. The New Ordinary Shares have been issued at 75.75p per share being the mid-market closing price on Thursday 13 November 2008, the last trading date prior to this announcement.

[egoi] 05/11/2008 08:48

Another quality trading update I feel. Share price understandably held up far better than most financials. Could see a strong bounce from this level imho. Like the bit about cash generation, hinting too at just how very comfortably debt is managed despite years and years of utterly misplaced worries on that score from agreeable on this thread.

Well done Vantis!

Excellent flexible business model here imho and so very recession resistant.

'Vantis, the accounting, tax and business recovery group, issues the following update on current trading prior to entering its pre-close period in respect of the six months ended 31 October 2008 ('H1 2009').


Post our AGM update on 25 September, the Group has continued to perform in-line with management expectations during an increasingly difficult business environment. During H1 2009, the change in business mix has become more pronounced reflecting changing market conditions and the counter-cyclical nature of the Vantis business model.


Business Recovery has continued to prosper with an increasing proportion of Group activity especially in recent months.


Business Advisory performed satisfactorily.


Within Consultancy, Financial Management performed particularly well, whilst Corporate Finance weakened due to the turbulent financial markets. Given the shift in the economic landscape, our defensive and balanced business model has allowed us to transfer resource from Corporate Finance and other divisions into Business Recovery which should allow us to benefit from the market downturn.


Operating margins remain robust and in line with management expectations.


Cash generation is in line with management expectations and has enabled investment in the growing Business Recovery division.....'

[agreeable] 29/10/2008 15:28

A poor day when set against the market strength, its the debt that gets you in the end

[egoi] 11/10/2008 08:20

VTS has proved the strength of its business model time and again despite agreeable's years of predictions of imminent disaster through much of this thread - it hasn't ever even nearly happened and he/she will be wrong again I think! Looks cheap to me compared to Tenon. And has held up strongly compared to other financials in the recent market - wise posts Lapiteau and Lady F.

Looks a cracking bargain to me at these levels.

[agreeable] 10/10/2008 16:40

the Company is woefully overgeared v Tenon, its debtors are far too high and it has now taken to leaking out shares to pay people. This is an accident waiting to happen, they were adept at implementing a buy and build strategy but once the money ran out they have slipped back and back and.....
With all professional services firms under pressure they will struggle to manage within their borrowing covenants and then shareholders will be diluted out of site. They have £40m of debt and are capitalised at £37m,

[lapiteau] 30/9/2008 14:00

LadyFarmer

Nope I don't think you are missing anything. The company continues to do well and despite the fact that they have pegged back anticipated earnings for 2009, they are still growing...

What is of more interest I think is the comparison with tenon which shares a near identical business model. See my previous post.

Also, the company have a net asset value per share of some 96p and are valued at 82p today. I believe that Tenons NAV is somewhere nearer 7p versus a share valuation of 55p (ish).

The reason I think Vantis are not moving forward is the fact that they have so little liquidity in the stock. Only some 50 Million shares in circulation and a sizeable chunk held by the board.

Whilst they have such low liquidity, they don't have a great market and perhaps the fear is that they could be difficult to sell.

IMO

Thanks

Lap

[ladyfarmer] 25/9/2008 08:28

Thanks egoi. I don't often post but have become very frustrated with VTS, who I've followed since the IPO. Professionally I come across lots of Vantis firms and they generally seem pretty switched on and broadly based. I think really should be at least double current share price - or am I missing something?

[egoi] 25/9/2008 07:48

Nice to see a newcomer to the thread - welcome Lady Farmer.

One other point I suspect there were some shorters, hopefully the recent moves will discourage them!

[juju43] 25/9/2008 07:41

a good update .this should be doing better

[ladyfarmer] 25/9/2008 07:32

egoi I agree. But the share price doesn't reflect it - they have only 1/3 the market cap of BEG, while Vantis have double the t/o and profits!
I'm happy to wait until others catch on but hope it's not too long - perhaps today's analyst presentation will spread the word.

[egoi] 25/9/2008 07:23

Another period of solid performance by the looks of it.

Cracking company imho and keeps getting it right.

'............The recurring business model that Vantis adopts ensures the Group's overall prospects remain encouraging and we continue to gain a good reputation for our high level of service and market leading expertise.

It is prudent to be cautious in these times of unstable financial markets however the Board remains confident that the Group should continue to perform in line with management expectations and I look forward to providing further detail at the time of our interim results........'

[egoi] 24/7/2008 09:15

Yes Juju, yet again the resident waffler got his results forecasts way off.

[juju43] 24/7/2008 08:56

chart looking good for further gains. right place at the right time - keep the faith

[juju43] 23/7/2008 15:10

BEG flying too

[egoi] 23/7/2008 06:53

In the current economic climate diluted eps 11p and much strengthened cashflow - these results look especially strong.

Specially for our resident Mr Negative after his way out forecast on cash, as with most of his other forecasts:

Cash Flow

Net cashflow from operating activities after investment in working capital was £8.7 million (2007:£0.3 million).

Cash generation from continuing operations continues to be strong, with a net cashflow before exceptional items of £11.9 million for the year (2007: £3.5 million)

Well done again VTS.