Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Utilico Emerging Markets LSE:UEM London Ordinary Share BMG931151069 ORD 10P (DI)
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  -0.75p -0.34% 217.25p 216.25p 218.25p 218.50p 218.00p 218.25p 163,939.00 16:35:02
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Equity Investment Instruments 21.3 18.6 8.1 27.0 461.54

Utilico Emerging Markets Share Discussion Threads

Showing 401 to 422 of 425 messages
Chat Pages: 17  16  15  14  13  12  11  10  9  8  7  6  Older
DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
27/4/2017
14:32
@contact Further points on top of those from vacendak. 1. Don't buy only enough UEMS you can afford to exercise IF you think the share is going higher. Buy more and then just sell the UEMS you don't want to exercise ahead of expiry date. Or (as explained) let the ones you can't afford to exercise lapse and hope the trustee gets a better price than available ahead of expiry in the market. 2. Also if exercising but not then wanting to hold the shares, sell the share straight away at the market price next March and pocket the difference between the share price then (250p with a fair wind) and the 183p exercise price. 3.. Be clear that the current sub share price is way too low. It should be at least 34p. UEMS negatives? A bear market ahead and Emerging Markets taking a hit. Then just cut the loss on UEMS. But it is easier selling on an up day for the share. Can be difficult to sell a sub share at a decent price well inside the spread on a down day. fwiw I reckon high chance of share price gains continuing, and perhaps a bit more than 10%. Then UEMS would be worth 67p with share at 250p, but if discount continues and widens further best to assume UEMS around 60p with share at 250p, if selling in the market and not exercising.
kenmitch
27/4/2017
12:14
@contact Having converted some of my UEMS at the latest call, I can say: Your total cost per share at subscription/conversion will be: 28p (cost of your warrant) + dealing charges to buy the warrants + 183p (conversion cost). In essence the company pays the cost of the conversion, so you pony-up only 183p per share. An extra added bonus is that you pay your dealing charges, stamp duty, etc. only on the UEMS, which is technically cheaper than buying UEM, as they represent a % of the deal. Sure, it may not be much, but every penny counts. :)
vacendak
27/4/2017
11:57
Ken, Thank you for the explanation. If I buy UEMS at say 28p and exercise them on maturity, will I have to pay 1.80 in which case the share have cost me £2.08 or, will I pay £1.52 (exercise price less 28p) Thank you
contact2fsnetcouk
26/4/2017
19:45
contact. Yes it DOES matter when you buy UEMS IF the share price rises between now and expiry next Feb. Buy UEMS now at 28p with share at 217p OR buy later when share is with luck around 250p. THEN If buying UEMS you'll have to pay around 60p. i.e UEMS will have doubled and you will not only be paying double current UEMS buy price if waiting but will also have missed the chance to SELL your UEMS for a double too! Remember you don't have to exercise UEMS. You can buy and sell UEMS at any time just as you can with shares. And you can also exercise some and sell the rest of your UEMS. And you also have the option of letting UEMS lapse. I.e don't sell them when they expire as a trustee is appointed to exercise any UEMS allowed to lapse and the proceeds are then sent to your account with no dealing costs within a week or two. There are risks leaving it to the trustee. UEMS are still fantastic value at 28p and well worth buying IF confident the share price is going to rise. One reason they are so cheap is because very few understand Warrants and sub shares and so few trade them. With the share at 217p UEMS are worth 34p so 28p is a barmy too low price.
kenmitch
26/4/2017
13:15
Ken, You mention - If UEM can go up a boring 10-15% or so over the next year, then UEMS is likely to go up 80%- to a bit over 100%. Hence my view that it is unwise exercising except at expiry time. In my simple mind, surely providing the UEM price is rising, it does not matter when you buy the UEMS because you are paying £1.83 to exercise? thank you
contact2fsnetcouk
07/4/2017
16:13
Posted this on UEMS thread earlier today, but as even fewer posts there (just 12 since August!) it might get seen by and be of interest to a couple of people here. UEM again at 218p to sell and worth 35p but can be bought for just 28.25p. The only trades so far today are one tiny sell and another 4000 or so at 25.5p. Why sell when such incredible value unless thinking the share is heading down. UEMS is likely to continue to trade at a discount, and it could even widen a bit too. But it's amazing so few investors are aware of this bargain. Target just 5% more on the share price to 230p and UEMS will be worth 48p. OK the discount could get even wider, at share 230p UEMS should be at least 40p to sell. i.e not far off 50% gain compared with 5% for the share. As long as this isn't the peak for UEM, UEMS looks a no brainer. EDIT. £1000 UEMS stake - profit around £500 for 5% share price rise any time between now and next Feb. £10000 share stake. - profit around £500 for 5% share price rise. Same profit. £9500 less staked. Share goes down 5%.... loss on UEMS ( if not selling out long before share falls that much) would be around half the stake, i.,e £500., Loss on £10000 share stake would also be £500. If wanting to hold the share long term, then just exercise UEMS at expiry for no dealing or other costs. i.e if holding, say 3500 UEMS, then exercise by using UEMS to buy 3500 UEM at 183p a share.
kenmitch
15/3/2017
19:14
mustardmark. 1. Good online brokers all allow on line trades on warrants and sub shares. And PCFS is easy to trade online and usually well inside the spread too. My PCFS buys have all been so far inside the spread that they have been recorded as sells. PCFS is more liquid than UEMS. But UEMS is ok too, albeit on a wider spread, but again often able to buy and sell UEMS too well inside the spread. 2. Good luck with your UEMS stake if/when you buy. Can't go far wrong with £500 and if the share does drop it shouldn't be difficult to sell. BUT if looking to sell it is best to do so on an up day,as the price tends to be better then. Again depends on how good the broker is, but when sometimes it is difficult to buy or sell in size, then a "fill or kill" order usually works. I've rarely had any difficulty selling warrants, and certainly not for small stakes like yours. 3. Your stake might "only" be £500 but that gives roughly the same upside as £5000 in the share over the next year. So the sub is a no brainer IF thinking the share price rise is likely to continue. 4. Most newcomers to warrants and subs think they are highly volatile, very risky and risk of sudden wipe out. Have a look at the charts for both UEMS and PCFS and see that is just not the case. At times warrant and sub prices move very little for weeks.
kenmitch
15/3/2017
08:40
Thanks Ken - whilst Fidelity don't offer the facility, Share do. Interesting that online I can buy UEMS but PCFS is not available. I think I would be inclined to go with UEMS at any rate due to the longer expiry and having researched/invested directly in the fund - just waiting on news on another holding which should be released in the next week and then I'll take the plunge, albeit a very small £500 punt. A small stake I know but this is a new investment channel for me and I also have reservations on liquidity etc. Wish me luck :)
mustardmark
14/3/2017
13:08
Yes re UEMS. Also note that at last PCFS is moving up. PCFT (Polar Capital Finance Investment Trust) share is up just under 1% to 135p to sell, making PCFS worth 20p. PCFS is up 13% at just under 16p to buy (against just 13.6p to buy just yesterday) and is now around 14.5p to sell.
kenmitch
14/3/2017
12:18
UEMS seems to be a cheap way into this at (26p to buy +183p subscription price =) 209p compared to 216p here.Heavy gearing though and no dividend of course.
davebowler
13/3/2017
12:47
badday. Yes. Very frustrating. Good reasons so few left, but won't explain why now. THE year to invest in them was 1993 when all but 2 of several hundred warrants ended the year UP, with average gain for all warrants 223%, with 70% at least doubling and only 2 ending the year down! No wonder I love/d warrants. mustardmark. What a shame you've only found out about them now. Over the years many long dated warrants in the money were low risk even though investors did (and you will probably have to too) have to sign a risk form that makes them sound very high risk before being allowed to trade them. The 2 best sub shares (sub shares are identical to warrants, except that if called a warrant it cannot go in to an ISA but if called a sub share it can!) are PCFS and UEMS. Neither are low risk simply because we are close to expiry date.. July 31st for PCFS and Feb next year for UEMS. And if a bear market soon, and if both PCFT and UEM falling and staying below their exercise prices then both could expire worthless. BUT remember we can buy and sell them at any time up to expiry date so no need to wait for that total loss. And you are not wiped out if the share price falls below the exercise price and then recovers again. And anyway £1000 staked in UEMS and the share crashes 20% fast could mean a loss of around 80% and £800. BUT if staking £5000 in the share the loss is £1000 so no more risky on that basis than the share. Right now imo PCFS has the edge over UEMS. We know higher interest rates are likely and are good for banks margins, and also the main PCFT holdings are on a very good run. Higher interest rates could be negative for UEM. And right now PCFT share price is UP to 134p to sell, making PCFS (exercise price 115p) worth 19p. Yet it can still be bought for a crazily too cheap 13.6p. it's a shame PCFS can't be exercised at any time as then there would be a great arbgitrage opportunity. In the past (e.g with 3i warrants) it was possible to arbitrage time and time again when market makers mis priced them as they are mis pricing both UEMS and PCFS right now. I hold both btw and have all I want. First bought PCFS years ago and though cutting some of the loss, held on to the rest all the way down to 1p to sell. Then started buying again at 2p and now that stake up to nearly 13p. So now well in profit again. Another plus for long dated warrants.. they can recover from huge % losses.
kenmitch
13/3/2017
10:15
Again, thank you for the posts above - I don't mind admitting that I have never explored warrants/subs - always presumed highly risky in a similar vein to CFD's which again I avoid like the plague. My platform is Fidelity which, after trawling through the weekend I don't believe offers the ability to invest directly in subs, I've checked out Hargreaves and they apparently do - I'll give Fidelity a call to see if it is a service they offer but not generally advertised. Thanks again Ken/badday ;)
mustardmark
12/3/2017
18:30
Vacendak, Ken, thanks for the excellent responses. Ken, having built up such a great and profitable understanding of subshares and warrants it must be frustrating for you that they've declined ( in terms of availability) so much in the last few years.
badday
12/3/2017
17:12
Hi badday. Good to see a post from you here. I've happy memories of your posts and some excellent investment finds on Mike Walters subscription website. As you'll know (but the helpul vacendak probably won't) there was a thriving warrant thread there, and also I ran a warrant portfolio that rocketed for a while (nearly tripled at it's peak) before we had to end it because there were so few warrants and subs left. And you'll also know my strong feelings about keeping it simple. Warrant fans elsewhere are inclined to make them sound far more complex than needed! Anyway to your questions: 1. They OUGHT to go up penny for penny with the share price BUT there are now very few warrants and sub shares left, and for reasons I can't fathom the market makers are now pricing PCFS and to a lesser extent UEMS at a discount. So it is not certain that they will go up penny for penny in line with the share. e.g as explained in my earlier post, if the share gets to 240p then UEMS is worth 57p (exercise price is 183p). BUT it's likely that UEMS will not go as high as that. My guess would be about 50p to sell with share at 240p. (You/we can get the full value by exercising). Note too that though spreads are wide it is often possible to buy both UEMS and PCFS so far inside the spread that sells are recorded as buys. This is nothing new btw. Biggest sub share winner on the portfolio on Mike's site was Geiger Counter sub shares where we bought a small stake at just 0.8p when the spread was 0.75p to 1.5p!!! The price peaked nearly times 60 higher at 46p. Bet you didn't buy any! (That gain was when the share only doubled) 2. re US interest rate rises and effects on Emerging markets. Opinion on the effects of this is divided, and also it varies from Country to Country, and anyway since rises this year are expected some of this will already be priced in. Also remember that UEMS invests mostly in Utilities. A safer than average sector, if a little boring. Hence share price upside potential not that large over the next year or so, and hence why imo it is far better to buy a small stake in UEMS than any stake in UEM. If UEM can go up a boring 10-15% or so over the next year, then UEMS is likely to go up 80%- to a bit over 100%. Hence my view that it is unwise exercising except at expiry time. Finally PCFS is also well worth a look. Unlike for UEM/UEMS interest rate rises are seen as good for banks - easy to widen margins. And US bank shares are flying this year. PCFT shares is 133.5p to sell,making PCFS worth 18.5p (exercise price is 115p and expiry July 31st this year). Yet though worth 18.5p PCFS could be bought for 13.5p on Friday. Ask if wanting to know more. Now that I know you're here I'll check this thread more often. Btw I don't see why you need to time your buying, except that ideal time is an up day for share and before UEMS is up too. As you might know I've rarely exercised a warrant in nearly 30 years investing in them, including the good old days when there were several hundred of them!
kenmitch
12/3/2017
14:40
@badday UEMS is a derivative, technically a call option with only two possible calls left. So its price is indeed linked to that of its underlying asset, UEM; but it is unlikely to vary in perfect proportions, in fact it does not. There are days when UEM goes up sharply and UEMS does not budge or even goes down a bit. Alternatively UEM can be going down and UEMS up... The correlation of UEMS to the price of UEM is called the "delta": hxxp://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/delta.asp UEM qualifies as Emerging Market - the name gives it away :) - but it is far more conservative than the rest of the pack. It did get dumped when people dumped EMs last year though. If you look at the portfolio, the markets it invests in have "emerged" some time ago and are pretty stable politically and economically too. The riskiest currency-wise I think being Brazil, then again Brazil is no Turkey. I would not worry too much about the $. Back to the price, kenmitch is right: UEMS is pretty cheap, even more right when looking at the discount, which has been hovering around 15% for a while now. The problem is to buy them at the right time due to pretty nasty spreads (16.7% at close on Friday for instance and it can be worse). Unless you are a big player, you could try to get them via a monthly investment option (set it up for one month only) if this is an option from your broker/investment platform. I bought mine last year very close to the mid-price of the day by doing so. The share price is only slightly up from where it was at the end of October last year (same for the NAV), so that is four to five months lost in the UEMS game. We are only left with two sucbscription calls, one in August and the last one in February next year. The calls for the corporate action from your investment platform comes early in the month of the convertion, so you need to time your UEMS buying accordingly. I got mine in the second week of February for the latest round.
vacendak
11/3/2017
12:44
Ken A couple of quick questions Now that subs are in the money, they should go up penny for penny with the share price? How do you see US interest rate rises rises affecting UEM? Has the recent rise been in anticipation of US rate rise increase? Cheer
badday
10/3/2017
21:53
mustardmark. If you are looking to build a position, then buying some sub shares now and exercising them at expiry time at 183p makes sense. Usually no dealing costs. Or just sell the sub shares in the market. Best to do that at least 4 weeks before final expiry date. With share currently 212p to sell, UEMS are worth 29p but could be bought for 26p today. Target 240p share price and UEMS worth 57p. So FAR more upside potential. e.g £1000 in UEMS if share gets to £2.40 will give profit not far off £1000. £5000 invested in the share now will give around £600 profit. So FAR more staked for FAR less reward! Few realise this. Hence very few trades and often sub price is cheap. And UEMS is very cheap.
kenmitch
10/3/2017
11:15
Thanks for the info on the subscription shares - very informative. I've just started to build a position here (not subscription shares yet!) rather than the Fundsmith Emerging Equities Trust - I have to say that I prefer the idea of infrastructure rather than cyclical stock which Fundsmith has a bias in. Time will tell I suppose. The discount to NAV was also an incentive ;)
mustardmark
01/3/2017
10:15
Result of the conversion round. http://uk.advfn.com/stock-market/london/utilico-emerging-markets-UEM/share-news/Utilico-Emerging-Markets-Limited-Allotment-of-ordi/73978956 Around one million shares have been converted, which represents only 0.6% of the total in circulation. Thirty three odd millions subs are left for the next rounds.
vacendak
16/2/2017
15:30
Some good news for EM in the FT: EM growth picks up sharply in January (Premium access) Https://www.ft.com/content/8f1c58f2-f2dd-11e6-95ee-f14e55513608 This one should be free to access: Https://www.ft.com/content/a2fabd26-f393-11e6-8758-6876151821a6
vacendak
15/2/2017
11:11
@kenmtich "Why? You will then be holding more shares that will go up far slower." True, but I like dividends. :) Kind of a long term investor too, so I see warrants/subs more as a shortcut to ownership with an added boost at conversion when adequately timed. Like you, I also see them as sneaky rights issues, but again, if things go South, nobody is forced to exercise either.
vacendak
15/2/2017
10:39
vacendak. Also a good post and very useful for any readers not familiar with sub shares, and I agree with most of it. I've invested in warrants and subs since the 1980s and they have often proved to be fabulous investments. Note too that only small sums invested give such good rewards. e.g invest £3000 in UEM and if share goes up 10% gain is £300. £500 invested in UEMS now and if share goes up 10% UEMS should go up around 80%. That gives a £100 BIGGER gain than £3000 invested in the share and with far less money risked should markets crash and take UEM way down too! re. UEMS. Don't agree re the sub being that volatile partly because the share isn't. A look at the UEMS chart should confirm that. Also the value of the sub won't be completely wiped out if the share falls until much closer to expiry date. BUT note if wanting to sell it is far easier to do so on an up day for the share. Then it is often possible to sell inside the spread too. It is also often possible to buy inside the spread too. e.g I added yesterday at 21.3p when the buy quote was 22.5p. After that buy they widened the spread again. Yes, so few subs are traded that even one buy or sell can move the price. re. converting at the end of this month? Why? You will then be holding more shares that will go up far slower. Why not continue to hold the subs if believing the share price is likely to rise? I'll convert as many of mine as I can afford to at the final opportunity next year. And if between now and then I want out of UEM/UEMS then I'll just sell the sub shares. Also. Yes. There should be no charges if/when exercising. I rarely exercise and usually just sell the sub in the market well ahead of expiry. Yes again. Subs are almost always issued for free and often on a one for five basis. It is like a disguised rights issue and if the subs are exercised it means a slightly lower NAV. BUT it also means that the Trust gets £millions when they are all exercised. Also for you and anyone else interested; I ran a warrant portfolio on Mike Walters website www.michaelwalters.com until we had to close it when there were too few warrants and subs left to invest in. It exactly doubled but did a lot better than that for a a time before lack of warrants and the odd poor call hit performance. One of those poor calls was PCFS which since that portfolio was closed has quadrupled. There are posts there right now on UEMS and PCFS and anyone interested is I think able to take out a brief free trial. I also am currently running an Investment Trust portfolio there, which we started nearly a year ago and is currently around 35% up. It did include UEMS but I sold that stake on a dip a few months ago.I make the buy/sell decisions and react to any suggestions made. A poster there does all the hard work updating it in brilliant and colourful fashion every week. It's worth visiting the site just to see how he does it! Shares there on the Investment Trust portfolio can be found on the KITE thread and posts on warrants and subs on the WARP thread.
kenmitch
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