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Share Name | Share Symbol | Market | Type | Share ISIN | Share Description |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Uk Commercial Property Reit Limited | LSE:UKCM | London | Ordinary Share | GB00B19Z2J52 | ORD 25P |
Price Change | % Change | Share Price | Bid Price | Offer Price | High Price | Low Price | Open Price | Shares Traded | Last Trade | |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
0.40 | 0.58% | 69.80 | 70.10 | 70.50 | 70.80 | 69.10 | 69.60 | 2,317,620 | 16:35:24 |
Industry Sector | Turnover | Profit | EPS - Basic | PE Ratio | Market Cap |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
Real Estate Investment Trust | 73.38M | -222.33M | -0.1711 | -4.12 | 916.09M |
Date | Subject | Author | Discuss |
---|---|---|---|
04/12/2008 13:44 | Skyship, Good discussion and of course I agree with the mathematics. Our divergence seems, therefore, to be the definition of "shareholder value." You appear to say shareholder value = NAV I believe shareholder value = total shareholder return = share price performance + dividends + any other cashback. On anothre note, judging by the buy/sell activity its interesting to not the number of small chareholders. Whilst watching the trades I haven't seen a single large transaction go through. | ptolemy | |
04/12/2008 12:27 | Ptolemy - agreed, we're on the same wavelength re the value to be found, we just disagree in the timing - that's what makes a Market! Can I just finally say that I have total humility about my investment prowess, usually pretty good, but really caught on the hop by the severity of the decline in the tertiary oil sector - which is where all my losses are. The reason I say "guarantees increased shareholder value" is that it is 100% true. It is a simple question of mathematics, ergo: 1,000,000 shares in issue, net assets of £1,000,000 = NAV of 100p/share Buy-in 100,000 shares at, say, 75p (or any figure that is at a discount to the prevailing NAV). Issued shares now 900,000, net assets now £925,000, therefore NAV INCREASES to 102.8p, ie UP 2.8%. Hence shareholder value increased. I'm sorry, but buybacks work on the basis of simple mathematics when applied to NAV-based investments. Incontrovertible fact. Of course, it can most certainly be argued that the Company should conserve cash and do nothing; but it cannot be argued that buybacks do not increase shareholder value when applied at a discount to prevailing asset values. It is why the Board sought our approval to do so.... | skyship | |
04/12/2008 10:00 | Dozens of IT Cos have done share buybacks. I reacted cautiously to your note 31 because of your use of the 'G' word. You believe a share buyback guarentees increased shareholder value. I adopt greater humility in my investment approach. What can they do with the cash? 1. Pay a special divi, 2. buyback shares, 3. take advantage of their position of strength to buy assets and to make the company bigger/stronger. 1 and 2 they can do anytime (assuming they have cash). 3 can best be done at times of market turmoil - such as now. If the can't find a better opportunity for the cash than buying their own shares, it doesn't say much about their competence as property managers. Bottom line is we're on the same page. In the longer term it looks a good investment. | ptolemy | |
03/12/2008 16:10 | PTOLEMY - Sorry, but I do believe that on this occasion you are missing the point. As I stated in Post No.28 above: "I know that buybacks have a chequred history, but for asset valuation investments such as property companies and investment trusts, they are a very sensible way of using market aberrations to increase NAVs." Property companies and investment trusts are valued on the basis of Net Asset Value / share. As such, they are unlike the rest of the quoted trading companies which have been buying-up share capital; and then made to look foolish as the shares continue to descend, or plummet as in the case of the Banks. As the Directors of UKCM stated earlier this year: "It is the Board and Manager's intention to monitor opportunities in the market carefully for investment opportunities and to continue with the use of share buy backs through the utilisation of existing cash resources and any appropriate debt facility to enhance returns to shareholders." Buybacks IN OUR CASE do exactly that - ENHANCE RETURNS TO SHAREHOLDERS. I hope the Board took advantage of today's sell-off to hoover up some cheap stock; as I did.... Incidentally, you may well be right that we haven't yet seen the worse; however a further 15% property valuation decline from 30th September would give us an NAV of c.68p. So at 50p one is buying into a 26% NAV discount + a 10.5% Yield. | skyship | |
03/12/2008 15:36 | Skyship, good points. I'm just not sure we've seen the worst. How many CEO have said your words in the last 12 months? Namely "buybacks at these levels undoubtedly can guarentee shareholder value" There's an opportunity cost associated with spending you cash; if great opportunties arise they can't take them or need to need to borrow. Seems to me in this climate the strong should buyout the weak (or preferably, the best parts of the weak). I'll buy when the market has a 'death plunge day' (if they haven't wasted money on a buyback!) | ptolemy | |
03/12/2008 14:33 | No problem with your recommendation at all SKYSHIP, I too have been a buyer at these level`s and will continue to be so on any weakness. Regards. | pip_uk | |
03/12/2008 14:22 | PTOLEMY - "If I were UKCM I'd be much more concerned about preserving cash than using it to provide temporay support to the share price." hmmm - seems to me quite clear that investing in property in the current climate cannot guarantee increases in shareholder value, whereas share buybacks at these levels undoubtedly can. At the last count (15th Oct'08)we had CASH reserves of £64m, so no-one reading the stats can possibly say that there is any need to conserve CASH - remember UKCM is totally ungeared! No. Buybacks must be undertaken when there is a perverse disparity between the share price and the underlying NAV. That is why shareholders approved the Scheme. There are times for buybacks; and now is most undoubtedly an extremely good time. Though I suspect they won't be able to buy many, they should certainly be attempting to do so. ==================== Pip_uk - sorry I was a bit early with my recommendation elsewhere. Obviously there is a liquidation firesale taking place, so the share price may remain under water for a few days - who knows. Personally I topped-up again @ 50p. | skyship | |
03/12/2008 09:09 | If I were UKCM I'd be much more concerned about preserving cash than using it to provide temporay support to the share price. The fact they aren't doing it suggests they beleive matter will get worse before better. But that's no surprise, they said that in the recent statement. There appears to be good value here at some point but I'm not sure we're there in the cycle....yet. | ptolemy | |
03/12/2008 08:56 | I certainly have,bought a few yesterday and look forward to an interesting ride. To find a property company that is ungeared must be virtually unheard of. Strange old world, when things are motoring you tend to overlook this type of solid firm, and go for the high flyers,so it`s with thanks to you SKYSHIP for flagging this up. Another good dividend payer is CHESNARA just thought it might interest someone with good divi`s in mind. See you on MW`s. Cheers. | pip_uk | |
03/12/2008 07:53 | Certainly should. I just wish they'd take advantage of this second major dip to renew buybacks. I know that buybacks have a chequred history, but for asset valuation investments such as property companies and investment trusts, they are a very sensible way of using market aberrations to increase NAVs. | skyship | |
02/12/2008 21:34 | Should be held as they have no debt and earnings cover on the dividend. | topvest | |
02/12/2008 11:26 | Topped-up with a few @ 51.75p. Yld (if divi held) = a tad over 10%. | skyship | |
01/12/2008 15:25 | Having sold out on the great rally back to 65p, I'm happy to be back in today @ 53.75p. Yield = 9.76%.......NAV discount, who knows, perhaps in the range of 25%-28%. | skyship | |
29/10/2008 13:40 | This high volume really does provide a splendid opportunity to recommence the buybacks. They have just 12.87m shares in Treasury after the last buyback on 27 November 2007 when they bought 450,000 shares @ 73.5p per share. | skyship | |
27/10/2008 14:35 | Good luck Skyship. If that doesn't prove to be a good long term investment we're all in very serious trouble... | chopshs | |
27/10/2008 13:46 | chops - topped up today @ 53.25p... | skyship | |
27/10/2008 13:16 | Even though I've been bearish I can't believe how quickly this has fallen. With the share price at 52p, it's at a 35% discount to NAV (ungeared), with a 10% divi. See SLI's IMS today for a comment on how bad things are. Have rarely read anything so gloomy from the horse's mouth. I'm not buying but at this price I can see why UKCM might be perceived as good value. Agree they ought to start some buybacks. | chopshs | |
26/10/2008 17:27 | Not Manu - thnx for that - certainly the property portfolio is a class act. I see the following statement in the Apr'08 Finals: "No further shares have been bought back since the period end. Your Board will continue to use share buy backs in future where it believes that it will enhance shareholder value while giving careful consideration to the Company's cashflows and development and asset management opportunities as they arise and will carefully monitor the effectiveness of the programme." Wouldn't be at all surprised to see a few buybacks kicking in at these levels. I also see that ADVFN have got the dividend yield wrong. Better to base yld projections upon 4 x 1.3125p = 5.25p. So the yield @ 56p = 9.4%. Having sold a few properties that could well reduce to 5.00p for a yld of 8.9%. Looks good to me! | skyship | |
26/10/2008 13:23 | Anyone know whether this company has a website - must be one surely, but darned if I can find it!! | skyship | |
22/10/2008 14:41 | It's about time the discount to NAV is increasing. Do like the ungeared balance sheet. | not manu | |
22/10/2008 10:53 | I accept that lower interest rates are good for property but until such time as the banks are prepared to lend then it's a little academic. A few months ago I was also of the view that there could be a quick rebound as someone switched the light back on. However, I now believe the recovery will be slow. From a political point of view I expect the banks to be under more pressure to lend to the residential sector rather than the commercial one. I monitor the sector for short term pricing anomalies and for the forseeable future reckon the only way to make money out of these things is to trade them (which isn't my normal investment style). I actually use UKCM as a proxy for the markets expectations of future valuation declines. As it's ungeared it's very easy to see and then provides a reasonable comparison for the attractiveness of the geared funds. As a long term holding I'm sure you will be okay with UKCM at these prices but I suspect you will be getting an opportunity to top up at a lower level in the next few months. | chopshs | |
22/10/2008 07:41 | CHOPSHS - I accept all you say, but believe that the bear story is already reflected in property share prices across the board - in many cases excessively so. Property sales are still achievable - see IERE today. The bull point is that interest rates are falling again - inc. LIBOR. As the trend is confirmed so the asset class will again be identified as attractive; and the light will switch on overnight, perhaps with the appearance of a large deal from one of the vulture funds. As for UKCM in particular; my purchase is for a long-term holding in my SIPP and initially just with a 3% weighting. I will increase that should we see a fall back to the low 50s. | skyship |
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