UK Coal Share Discussion Threads

[jeffian] 23/10/2012 22:41

Aye, but it's a useless business with a lot of property assets. The trick is to divide the one from the other with, hopefully, something left over.

[rockabilly.] 22/10/2012 14:18

Just read a great article in my local paper. Germany, France, Portugal, and Poland, or at least their respective governments, have all agreed to invest in new coal fired power stations. Looks like the worries about finding a market may have been overblown.

[jeffian] 19/10/2012 12:28

JC was brought in to sort out the mess and the seeds of the current situation were sown by previous management. If he goes, I go!

[ivancampo] 19/10/2012 08:12

Although many circumstances will have been out of his control JC has presided over a massive decimation of shareholder value. Why not go part time and get a cushy job as head of Ofwat?

[rockabilly.] 18/10/2012 10:17

It's always been like that with the coal mining industry jeffian...a problem that is difficult to overcome...but I think there will be a shift in our fortunes in the not too distant future

[jeffian] 17/10/2012 20:09

Their problem isn't having a market, it's getting it out of the ground without production delays and at a cost which gives them a profit.

[rockabilly.] 17/10/2012 18:47

I think we may end up seeing this one rise considerably in the very near future. Successive governments have failed to deal with the impending energy crisis in the UK, but have still started to shut down coal fired power stations early....They won't have nuclear stations on line in time, so I'm expecting a reversal of policy by the government, which will make this company very visible again. Should be good :-)

[guidfarr] 12/10/2012 00:31

Spread betting magazine october edition out focus on mining companies

[jeffian] 04/10/2012 16:27

I know. Hence my question ("Is this helpful to us or not?"). I wondered if taking a competitor out of the picture meant their customers had to come to us.

[the troll] 04/10/2012 15:52

we don't own Maltby anymore Jeffian; it was sold to Hargreaves a couple of years ( or so ) ago.

[beeks of arabia] 01/10/2012 21:12

I see Peel are looking at building a 20 odd MW power station to power Kellingley.

Went to the company exhibition today, as the majority of the construction/fuel traffic will pass my house!

Asked a few questions regarding traffic, however once I mentioned Peels relationship to UKC, they brought out a scary PR lady to deflect any "interesting" questions!

[jeffian] 26/9/2012 14:34

I see there's a threat to close Maltby due to geological problems. Is this helpful to us or not?

[muckshifter] 19/9/2012 18:00

Freddie,
I used to know lots about UKC sites as I visited many opencast sites in the past, but that is some time ago now.

To get a feel for what I'm saying, I suggest you go to UKCoal's website, look under businesses - surface mining - and then look at the sites listed under restored, operational, future, etc (they used to have lots of info there). You will probably see lots of multi hundred Hectare sites (1Hectare = 2.4Acres) to be restored to country parks etc, and photos of wild Northumberland countryside.

Bear in mind that these categories will only cover those sites for which planning is underway or they are worked or complete - there will probably be far more similar land held for the future which is not mentioned there.

One example of what I've been saying, from (fallible) memory, is Cutacre, where the site was 1000 acres and land for prospective development is 250 acres. This ties in well with the norms of the past, where approx 25% of the site area was taken up by the overburden heap / soils heaps, and did not therefore get excavated - hence no settlement problem.

Hope that helps.
Regards.

[freddie ferret] 19/9/2012 16:05

Thankyou, that is usefull information. Greater detail would be usefull, if you can help?

[muckshifter] 17/9/2012 19:04

Same sort of fantastic land values people used to rave about five or so years ago
Same tendency for those doing the "raving" to ignore the fact that (in those days - don't know for sure now) the vast majority of the land was "opencast" land, usually in the wilds of Northumberland or similar. The large land sales recently have mostly been unmined opencast land, which has been sold as part agricultural land, with limited development potential, with UKC retaining mining rights.
Lots of the remaining "opencast" land has been excavated to depths of perhaps 100m and then backfilled which means there is a settlement problem for perhaps 25 years.
Regards.

[freddie ferret] 17/9/2012 17:21

Mining performance not brilliant, poor is when you're not mining at all. On the land values I roughly agree, and that was the point I was making earlier, though as I have also said I do not think much of the way they have been capitalising on their vast land bank. They should be taking it from pre PP right through to house or flat sale IMHO.
Part of the problem IMHO when reading the ARAA they are still to much like the old NCB (employee safty, lots and lots of turgid stuff, the ARAA are 30% at least, longer than they need be. They need a bit of good investor orientated PR).

[treble in 1999] 16/9/2012 11:12

Freddie

Its not PRIME yet, and may never be so. If you get say 10 houses to an acre, then thats £300 per house, very low. So 30k per house seems about right.

If its flats and semi-detached, then we could be adding another 50%. So an overall land value(assumed planning granted) is 30000, x 30000, plus 50% £1.35bn.

Pension deficit circa £450k, other 150k, and in the long run this should pay handsomely. Need cash now though due to poor mining performance.

good luck those who are in.

[freddie ferret] 13/9/2012 15:18

Looking at last years accounts it seems to me they have been selling development land too cheap. The share price on this is silly in my view. The business seems highly profitable but risky. OK there is a pension deficit, but it is IMHO manageable given the level of profits and future profits.

[freddie ferret] 13/9/2012 14:43

At the price of rough grazing land 30,000 x 3,000 = 90,000,000 multiply by 10 for building land and by 10 again for prime building land.

[jeffian] 12/9/2012 15:17

Well one of us is a bit slow on the uptake. I'll leave it to others to decide which.

[freddie ferret] 12/9/2012 12:12

You thick or somtthink? MINIMUM

[jeffian] 12/9/2012 10:21

You said "Farming land £3000 an acre min. 30,000 acres do the sums", so I did.

Everybody understands that they have a lot of land, ff. They also have huge liabilities and an underlying business that doesn't look too healthy. Do those sums! The question is, can they separate the two and leave anything for shareholders? Jonson Cox was brought in to try to achieve that feat and he has a good track record, having pulled off a similar trick at Anglian Water. I have some of these in the belief that he can, but it is an outright punt and as someone says above, there's a good chance there'll be little or nothing left for shareholders after the 'restructuring'.

[freddie ferret] 12/9/2012 00:50

Jeffian.
I said £3000/acre min, that's rough hill grazing.