Tungsten Share Discussion Threads

[bs76] 24/10/2016 12:59

Date of transaction on Ed's RNS is 14 October 2016.

Closing share price of last three dates before transaction date
11 Oct 2016 (Tue)- 61.50
12 Oct 2016 (Wed - 60.75
13 Oct 2016 (Thu)- 58.00
Avg price is 60.

As per Pays's RNS- their director got 65% loan for 3 years on 3% interest pa paid quaterly and 1.5% financing fee. Ed must have got similiar terms

Pledged shares 6m on 60p price are worth £3.6m. EFH must have given 65% loan of £3.6m => £2.34m amd Ed will pay fees plus interest => 245k in 3years

so per share => 60p value and loan given is 39p and fees/interest of around 4p will be paid in installment's to EFH.

[manics] 23/10/2016 16:53

andrew: Edi already did -when he tried to bring Tungsten into Tantalum (universally without merit..)! ;)

[bs76] 23/10/2016 15:04

"At some stage Edi will default on the terms of the loan. That is what happened before in EVERY CASE. The shares dip below something like 57p and it is a technical default."


It hasn't happened in every case. PAYS (OPAY) director Joel Leonoff has taken similar loan in 2014 and still not defaulted

Pays share went down on this issue by 20% in nov 2014 but it recovered



I doubt EFH has sold pledged share's at that time. If they had then they will have to buy back before 31st march 2017 at a higher price.

[andrewdbl] 23/10/2016 14:00

M,

You float a co, you see the share price fall by ~75% from float.
You leave the bod
The current bod are openly critical of your stewardship
The current bod dont treat your suggestions/ comments with much respect
You think there is still value in there somewhere.

I would do something that looks a bit odd under those circumstances

[manics] 23/10/2016 13:37

My rambled thoughts:

So Tom reckons Edi has offloaded 6m shares at around 47p after the EFH 'discount'. A price there is "no way Edi could have achieved on the open market".

In tandem Tom's piece speculates(?) that EFH have already sold the 6m.

OK -but TUNG hasn't been under 50p for months, so can the market support 6m sells or not, and if it (seemingly) can (if Tom's accurate), then why didn't Edi execute market sells himself, and from 70p?

Edi retains direct title to 11.5m shares. If Tom's excitable prediction of a share price crash comes about, then Edi's resultant EFH £2.8m cash stack quickly dissipates when reflected against his broader net.

11.5m X 63p =£7.24m 11.5m X 47p =£5.4m = (£1.8m)

So wouldn't Edi have been better off taking the opportunity to release the bulk, and not a minority?

I can understand Tom leveraging this to further champion his EFH & TUNG positions on the Shareprophets platform, though Edi is no longer on the board at Tungsten. He's 'just' a shareholder. I appreciate he's the largest, though for this reason the direct comparisons to QPP etc are too extreme.

FWIW I don't think EFH have sold the 6m. It's impossible now to know if they will (I agree with Tom that they *can*) and what Edi's strategy is. I suspect much will hinge on Tungsten's performance.

All that aside, and the thing that's bugging me, I don't know what Edi's total net is though I find it hard to believe he's that strapped for £2.8m such that he needs to engage a service like EFH...

[chemistdude] 22/10/2016 20:12

No surprises here.

[bs76] 21/10/2016 15:04

Bang on manics. I have the same view

[dollarzpounds] 21/10/2016 14:42

Go on Manics lad !!!

[andrewdbl] 21/10/2016 11:16

CD, be careful.
What TW points out is that some companies don't actually make money and look like they never will - so you should not invest in them - indeed if the share price is relatively overvalued, short them.

The effect of this is that if enough people agree with him, companies that are burning cash and need more investment to reach breakeven either have to issue more shares at a lower price, or in extreme situations, cannot.

Of course the true effect he has is almost impossible to really know as he is just one voice / opinion in the market.

He has helped to finish off some companies that were not viable - or possibly dodgy.
He has also helped to finish off some companies that _might_ have gon on to prosper.

It is unwise to dismiss him out of hand - QPP and it is also unwise to follow him blindly - long SGI short BOO.

His central point - that a company that burns cash and does not have enough cash to reach breakeven effectively has a value of £0 - is sort of roughly true.

[bs76] 19/10/2016 17:53

:) we will know in next few weeks if selling pressure increase by EFH selling.

Ed must have required cash: He couldn't sell tanatalum. He can't sell tung as sale by major shareholder will crush the share price. He sold Imagine but got illiquid 33% shares in future group (market cap after merger will be around £45m). He is waiting on Pension insurance corp listing for a while to sell his remaining 3-4%. And all other disruptive assets looks like in start-up phase.

[chemistdude] 19/10/2016 17:08

Hopefully not following Rob Terry's playbook (EFH):



No doubt Winifirith is going to have a field day with this innocuous transaction.

[bs76] 19/10/2016 15:13

hxxps://www.disruptivecapital.com/news/acquisition-imagine-publishing-future-plc-010716.html

Upon completion of the Acquisition, the vendors of Imagine will own, in aggregate, c.32.8% of Future’s enlarged issued share capital

Atleast they have moved imagine's investment from Privte company to listed shares. Though illiquid but they can still sell to realize cash.

[bs76] 19/10/2016 15:04

I suppose Equity first will charge high interest 7-8% and if price goes down, then will get more shares as collateral. Ed still got more 11m shares to pledge if share price tanks.


From Ed's point of view - 7-8% up in share price will cover his interest.


On other news - Disruptive has sold Imagine publishing to future group but not in cash



The total consideration payable, as detailed on 23 June 2016, is 179,567,841 new Future shares (the "Consideration Shares"), which at Future's closing share price of 8.84 pence on 12 October 2016 represents a consideration of �15.9m.

[chemistdude] 19/10/2016 15:00

Sorry if I've misunderstood, but isn't this just a loan i.e. Edi doesn't want to sell the shares so he has given 6m shares as collateral to raise funds for another investment.

Then at some stage he will pay this Equities First Holdings LLC back and get his shares back too?

[edwardt] 19/10/2016 14:48

it says they will not short them as part of the agreement - ... therefore why do it??

[bs76] 19/10/2016 14:44

Actually not £3.7m- the company wouldn't have lend 100% - should be around 70%. So he got around £2.6m out

[bs76] 19/10/2016 14:42

Ed got £3.7m out. I hope the lending company will not sell.

I suppose Ed should have sorted that out otherwise he will get peanuts for remaining 15.7m shares

:)

[chemistdude] 19/10/2016 14:35

Clearly raising money for a Steel Works Manics