Tp Share Discussion Threads

[croasdalelfc] 07/2/2017 07:48

i guess revenues will march onwards to £30m...... still a bit to go to get to £100m ;)

a nice acquistion that is earnings enhancing straightaway, paid for , and can provide synergies and improve EBITDA

[nw99] 07/2/2017 07:41

Very good move exactly as sharewatch said they would

[glennborthwick] 07/2/2017 07:21

Onwards. Nice little add on.

[timojelly] 07/2/2017 07:14

They look good value, profit making and a great step across to aerospace and software.

[pavey ark] 06/2/2017 13:52

Central cost were/are? £1.1m and as I pointed out in a previous post this covers the salaries of the board, the secretariat, offices , announcements, holding meetings etc so I would not imagine there is much left over.
There was an announcement some time back that all expense overheads attributable to each individual unit was set against each unit.
I would imagine that each board member has responsibilities for overseeing a particular unit but this would be the case in all management structures.

Edison attempted to put a value on each unit and does not consider the central cost in the individual valuation .
Each unit stands on its own and central costs are quite different from the running cost/expenses/profitability of individual units

[eastbutwest80] 06/2/2017 13:30

Sorry, should have looked there first.

I am interested in the central costs as it appears that the seperate units are quite niche so I'm wondering how much of this could be managed locally at the business units and how much day-to-day work in the running of the business units is completed by those covered by central costs.

[pavey ark] 06/2/2017 12:56

TPG website

[eastbutwest80] 06/2/2017 11:48

Can anybody give me any background on historical EBITDA?

Also, do the units have separate management teams or all managed centrally?

[pavey ark] 06/2/2017 10:41

Heading off and was about to fill the place with figures but DYOR it is really quite easy.

Just these simple facts:

The three unit MS, D&T and engineering are likely to produce an EBITDA loss of close to £2m this year (various reasons for this but the info is all there)

The brokers forecasts have eventually been revised (again !!) and the consensus would seem to be a total EBITDA of £1m for 2016. TPG have said that this figure is close enough "in line"

If you look at the three units (above) and even with a "glass half empty" approach it is very difficult not to get break-even to £1m profit for 2017.

Engineering £700k to £300k profit
MS £400k to £200k profit
D&T break even to £600k loss

The broker's forecasts for Maritime in 2017 do not include the MoD contracts.

Without Maritime there could easily be a swing of £2m-£3m on the EBITDA and this is without other potential upside.

My own PERSONAL view is that EBITDA of £3m looks very safe and £4m is not a silly figure with the usual caveat that nothing is written in stone but I have to say that cash and the Maritime unit do make the risks look small (famous last words !!!)

[timojelly] 06/2/2017 08:50

Thanks, time to get this share price moving again I think..

[qackers] 06/2/2017 07:42

Until they publish the final results which will be, according to the last RNS, Tuesday 4 April 2017.

[timojelly] 06/2/2017 05:38

How long for quackers?

[qackers] 05/2/2017 18:07

That video is from last years event ewads.

Remember the company are in a closed period so no financials yet.

[pavey ark] 05/2/2017 10:11

"D&T should be ‘near break even’ for the 2016 accounts and possibly profitable this financial year."
The above is from one of the excellent posts supplied from our "on the ground" reporters at the recent presentation.

When I saw this I thought there had been some mistake, some misunderstanding, so I had a dig and where better to start than the recent Edison Report.
(please note that these reports are worth reading as long as you ignore forward forecasts as these have NEVER been correct.
The recent forecast for this year of EBITDA of £1m has been upgraded from £0.3m,£0.7m.£0.9m and now £1.0m all in 20 months ??!! The D&T figures are no better with a recent 30% improvement for the 2017 figures and this will almost certainly be way out.)

Better go into the Edison report and read the section on:

TPG Design & Technology

Old hands will know that this is what remains of the old Corac business and it has produced eye watering losses that have now been brought under control.
Even in H1 this had a loss of £0.7m and the year end loss was predicted to be £1.0m but I think there has been a major change in this unit and the reason is the recent ,very large, DESIGN contract signed with BAE for the new Trident boats. The French have almost certainly asked TPG to start designing the AC units for the new Australian boats and conventional submarine fleets that intend to use fuel cell technology will have there own new and specialised requirements.
If you throw in the renewable energy work this now looks like a nice little earner as opposed to a massive drain.

My previous short term wish was for the profits on MS and Engineering to cancel out the loss on D&T leaving TP Maritime to supply the cash but it now looks possible that all four units can contribute and anyone looking at the results of all four units over the last couple of years will see that this is very highly significant.

Just a final thought: a sophisticated/high tech design centre must sit very well with TPG's blue chip and international clients.

[septblues] 05/2/2017 08:24

hxxp://www.titek.co.uk/machining-and-cutting-of-titanium/

[septblues] 03/2/2017 12:13

Titanium machining is playing into growing markets in which TPG operates. But it's not to be undertaken lightly. As indicated above the challenge is the heat generated chaniging the nature of the material. With the right expertise it can command premium prices.

[bullster] 03/2/2017 11:38

I am intrigued by the wording, "machine capable of cutting titanium".

Well, i would say that all these machining centres are capable of doing that, surely it's the fact that it's how you set the machine up that makes it more capable compared to another.

Leaving the second most important thing, tooling, to one side, when machining titanium the most important thing is cooling your tooling and work piece. The industry is beginning to turn to liquid nitrogen in preference to other fluid coolants, as it gives tooling tips a much longer life.

Yes, titanium is used commonly in the aerospace industry but i will be looking down other avenues also.

[bullster] 03/2/2017 10:20

We must not underestimate the earnings potential of the "whole of life package".

The profit made, let's say 12%, when supplying a piece of sophisticated equipment, can be matched and even bettered, by the profit capabilities of the after sales, whole life, maintenance package.

For instance, lets suppose you supply equipment into a submarine for £1m and you make £120k profit.
But you have a contract to maintain it that could earn £6k profit per year. After 20 years you have made £120k.

[pavey ark] 02/2/2017 23:14

Eastbutwest80,very good post/info, can probably help with the hydrogen and nuclear thing and will post tomorrow.

[eastbutwest80] 02/2/2017 21:36

Sorry, by H2 I meant Hydrogen by the way, not Half 2.

[eastbutwest80] 02/2/2017 21:12

I am a new fish to this but went along to the G&IF on Tuesday and watched Mr. Kings' presentation as well as spending a considerable amount of time speaking to the staff on the stand afterwards. I was suitably impressed as they seemed to be one of only two companies (them and Angle PLC) attending that had a clear strategy for the future which is refreshing considering they also have a graph pointing upwards shwoing the progress from the last 12 months.

I obviously wasnt the only one who noticed this as they had the busiest stand there by far, I had to wait to speak to someone the first time, i spoke to another investor there about the huge cash stockpile who had some interesting ideas about what they will do with it (nuclear acquisitions?!)

I agree with PA that the engineering side (submarines and engineering) seems to be the most exciting and to read here that the goal is £100m, it would appear that the manufacturing arm will be expected to give the most ROI for company. The services side seems like an annoyingly simple model - "take MOD redundant staff and sell them back to the MOD". If it is as easy as it was presented then £100m should be a doddle! I also notice on Linkedin that they are recruiting for this part of the business and I quote "nice people only!".

I spoke with Mr Kings very briefly and then Phil Curtis (Commercial Director) and Nick Pilditch (Sales Director) at seperate times who all gave me a very well versed and professional pitch. The comments on here about nuclear and aerospace seem to fit hand in hand with the impression I was left with from my visit, maybe its the fact that they are sales guys but I couldnt help but come away with a good feeling. My own background in aerospace tells me that these guys will be a perfect fit and if these are the new management team mentioned in previous posts then I think the company is in good hands (I see the "nice people theme").

I havent been following TPG long enough to know much about the Corac days but the management team that I met seem to be very aware of what needs to be done and the supporting evidence is that this is well underway, NP spoke of data collection to make decisions and the culture change of the business. All good stuff, they were also very honest about the past and spoke openly about the factors behind last years results and the new Edison update. You can tell a lot about a company going through change from the management team.

Does anybody know what market share TPG have of the sub work and the heat exchangers work? I imagine they are both quite specialist? How do you even start getting into nuclear engineering from oil and gas? There are huge differences.

My only concern that I did not really find any clarity on was the submarine business for the future, although SK's presentation implied that there were other technologies being investigated with H2 (Hydrogen), there was no mention of products or applications. Maybe I just didnt understand but could somebody fill in the blanks for me please?

All in all, I will be watching these very closely; i'm tempted to jump in now but I like to fully understand the business first.

Sorry for the stupidity on my part but I am eager to get my head around these guys.

*Edited for H2/Hydrogen clarification