Torotrak Share Discussion Threads

[dynoport] 03/2/2017 08:30

What's the situation with Allison these days?

[alchemy] 02/2/2017 14:01

Ah yes ..after sale market for an IC with v charge.Better than new alloys or twin exhausts etc. Agree. .

[willoicc] 02/2/2017 10:07

Alchemy.

Who knows how long manufacturers will continue to make petrol/diesel vehicles.

I doubt they will be in a big rush to make their current assets obsolete.

Think of the write offs they will have if they do rush to produce only H2/electric vehicles.

The point I was trying to make is that there are millions of cars and vans out there which provide a great after sales market for TRK to install V charge etc.

It is all about generating customer knowledge and trying to create a demand for TRK products.

The reason TRK is going down the tubes is because they do not have an end product to sell.

Just because you have the best mouse trap in the world does not mean people are going to beat a path to your door to but from you.

There are already plenty of mouse traps which work perfectly well and people are not going to hand the market on a plate to some newcomer.

[thanksamillion] 01/2/2017 18:09

I posted some time ago that I believed 3P was a lady and had possibly died as her postings on other, non-financial sites, also stopped around Nov 2014.

[clocktower] 01/2/2017 16:28

Where has 3Parsnips gone? Ramping this for years, and as expected it skids slowly down the drain. Another company that kept themselves employed at investors expense, that was all built on dreams.

Good Luck to those still holding.

[oliversanvil] 01/2/2017 16:14

1 Feb Cantor... 5.30 Hold

[willoicc] 01/2/2017 11:56

I know there is a big move towards H2 and electric vehicles.

However, at the moment these are much more expensive to buy and people will be buying internal combustion engines for years yet.

Even if manufacturers are not interested in Torotrak's products, there is a huge after market which surely TRK could address it they were not so used to waiting for other people to do the work for them.

V Charge for example.

Why do TRK not publicise the fuel efficiency and extra power benefits of V Charge to the general motoring public, and set up an after sales service to install these for individual motorists.

No doubt, too much like hard work.

[lefrene] 01/2/2017 08:51

Should have put a basic ivt in a Trannie van and demonstrated how it made your commercial vehicles employee proof, as well as saving fuel. It would have made much more sense than putting an ivt in an SUV. People who drive SUV's don't care about fuel consumption or pollution.

[fredd] 01/2/2017 08:44

Alchemy,
Living in France throughout the 1980s and 90s I bought one of the early Peugeot 205 diesels and ran it for 400,000 kms. It still had the original clutch, driveshafts and brake discs when I sold it. At the time France favoured diesels in small cars because the Japanese did not do them and PSA and Renault were very well set in small diesels. Afterwards the CO2 argument was very strong and the differential tax on road fuels was maintained. Not many people worried about particulates or nox emissions. The whole playground has always been a sphere of activity driven by political considerations and this has played out badly for TRK. I really thought that V Charge was going to make it, but I have been wrong before.
Advancing age and the proximity of my local Honda concession now sees me in a Honda Jazz, which I like very much.

[alchemy] 01/2/2017 08:30

Yes . Where to start? People bought diesel to reduce CO2 , well some did, some bought the idea of ,goody, lower cost.Turning people who were naturally of a petrol disposition to Diesel took a generation. Now they want to turn us off Diesel by flicking a switch. Loads of words and phrases come to mind.Nothing to do with Toro though, unfair, not thought through. The nudges to stop people buying should be in place by now but look at the cars tested in the mags , all TDI this and that.Yet some Petrol engines are quite good. Unsurprisingly.My wife , a chemist , suggested petrol and ran through the equations and issues. And I never have had a diesel, but was close. Other views from folk?

[oliversanvil] 01/2/2017 08:15

Millions of motorists could be 'demonised' for driving diesel cars as councils consider hitting them with higher charges and turning them into 'cash cows', MPs warned last night.

Local authorities in London, Birmingham, Nottingham, Derby, Leeds and Southampton are thought to be considering drastic measures to crack down on diesel to improve air quality.

Birmingham council yesterday became the second in days to unveil plans for extra penalties for diesel drivers.

Councillors want a 'clean air zone' in the city centre and are considering charging motorists who drive diesel cars into it.

[jpjp100] 31/1/2017 15:10

a grim end for a technology that once looked promising

I suppose there is a small hope that KERS and V-Charge might come to something

But it is, surely, very small indeed

[oliversanvil] 31/1/2017 08:24

Focusing and devoting all energies on one project (KERS) = coherent productivity =cost effectiveness.

[apfindley] 30/1/2017 15:08

Interesting Devbod.As the last hope is really with kers now.I Still fail to see how the source of power (petrol/diesel/electric or engine/motor) means that they dont want to buy the technology from trk.Regardless of power source, the variation of final drive ratio afforded by the technology would still make it more efficient.The variable ratio during acceleration may not be required when using an electric motor, but at higher cruising speeds, it would surely help to reduce high revolution power drain, thus reducing power consumption. The hope remains it seems with utilisation of the energy stored in the kers recovery system.Not dead yet, but this is a massive blow today.....and worryingly, they are laying off workers (consultation period). This will cost a hefty chunk of the cash remaining. Worse still, they are having to do it in a staged process.This tells me they can't afford to cut the division completely and make everyone redundant together. Which begs the question, will they need to do a fundraiser in a few months to pay for the next batch of redundancies. It looks that way in my opinion...

[devbod] 30/1/2017 13:04

I'm another of those who held TRK way back but kept an eye. I guess something about the story/technology keeps you hooked to see how the story ends.One thing I do remember is the financial deal done with the former Flybrid directors. Iirc the deal gave them back the rights to the flybrid kers technology if TRK went bust. Something to consider if calculating trk's liquidation value.

[apfindley] 30/1/2017 12:53

The pretty buys/sells colour you see are indicative only.The spread all-day has had the bid at well below where the sells are, so many trades are appearing as buys.The price is still significantly down

[oliversanvil] 30/1/2017 12:46

Doomsters! More buys then sells this am?

[supernumerary] 30/1/2017 11:04

ODR - if the comment about hindsight is aimed at me, I suggest you go back and read my posts over the last few years - I've been saying all this for a long, long time, not because I'm particularly brilliant, but because it's been bleedin' obvious.

The management in all its various iterations has consistently refused to engage with reality and focus on something that can make a profit. Even a small, short-term one would have kept them grounded, but as it is they've always gone for the big dream that somebody else would deliver for them. And in their endless search for technical refinement, they've always been at least two years behind market developments - the world moves faster than they do insulated by their bubble of shareholders funds.

[onedayrodders] 30/1/2017 10:33

Hindsight is a wonderful thing ... I'm not a holder here having held way way back but I always check in now and then for sentimental reasons.

I remember the bit thump in my stomach when Toyota walked a way completely out of the blue. I guess that was the biggest clue of all tom today's RNS.

Feel for the holders .. good luck elsewhere

[supernumerary] 30/1/2017 10:18

Sad, but the writing's been on the wall for years - manufacturers won't drive stuff off the crankshaft.

The disgrace here is that the management didn't recognise this and call off the mass-market programme 2 years ago. They could have then focused on the niche markets such as add-ons for underpowered sports cars where nobody gives a damn about fuel consumption if the performance is right.

And if they think it's too difficult or expensive to fit as an add-on, then they really don't have a market at all and should accept it.

I also remain sceptical about off-road KERS. There are already supercapacitor products available to meet this need and I don't see how trk's solution has sufficient advantages to displace an incumbent technology.

It now looks to me as though they'll run it for another two years to spend all the remaining cash, then sell off the IP to pay the liquidator's fees. The prudent shareholder will plan on no payout.

[oliversanvil] 30/1/2017 09:14

30 Jan Cantor... N/A Hold Sale of V charge intellectual property -- Private auction --Not a Fire sale. The whole LSE market down :-( does not help!

[alchemy] 30/1/2017 09:13

Oh dear.I recall positively looking for puns on Track to start this thread aeons ago. Much regret.

[lefrene] 30/1/2017 08:55

They never brought the tech to the public arena, imagine Tesla beavering away but never getting into the press? Looks like they will all but give the ivt ip away, then watch it appear in some Chinese vehicle! All they had to do a decade ago was have a demo vehicle on the road for the public to see, and get some media coverage. Is there enough in the coffers to keep fat salaries being paid until mid 2018? Looks like they gave the nod to Henderson to get out and salvage what they could.

[apfindley] 30/1/2017 08:49

Devastating news for holders. Year by year it's looking less likely and now confirmation the original concept is dead in the water There remains hope in kers alone. From 300p down to 1p and the technology not even made commercial.