Tetragon Financial Share Discussion Threads

[westofengland] 29/5/2020 11:40

Well done qvg- excellent NAV estimate.
Well done the managers for looking after our capital.

[hpcg] 29/5/2020 10:55

I never really understand the focus on discounts and share prices versus returns on equity, capital employed, assets etc. Or some aspects of the reverse for that matter, people buying based on dividends and share buy backs not supported by cash generated. Anyway, each to their own.

[qvg] 29/5/2020 10:40

post 216. not a bad guess??

[spectoacc] 29/5/2020 10:11

Agree re divi. I'd forgive them a lot (the discount, the tenders, the opacity, the excessive fees) if they kept up the divi. Either they're making returns, or they're not.

[hpcg] 29/5/2020 09:58

I bought at a discount so fundamentally I'm not bothered by it. The thing that actually matters is the ROA, and the discount only matters if it is signalling something amiss, which it hasn't done thus far. So as it is I am happy for the income to flow. With interest rates at 0 across the world we should anticipate lower returns going forward.

[horndean eagle] 29/5/2020 09:42

Does seem a bit of a dodgy uplift in NAV for the PE bucket. Be interesting to see what level tender offer gets done at. There have been a lot of stale bulls in this and almost impossible to clear them it seems. Management talk a good game about doing the right thing to narrow the discount but their actions say otherwise. One benefit of NAV not falling markedly is they will get less incentive fees on any rebound.

[makinbuks] 29/5/2020 09:33

From the AGT Investment Managers report this morning:

While TFG's mark-to-model approach for its CLO equity investments resulted in a far more modest decline for these assets than seen at peers that mark to market, TFG's discount would still be at an extremely wide level of 58% even with all its CLO equity positions written down to zero. While acknowledging the high fee structure, this seems extreme for a fund that has generated an annual NAV total return since inception of +11% and over 10 years of +16%.



Such a sharp share price fall appears overdone and is more indicative of how panic selling and illiquidity can affect funds such as TFG which invest in more obscure and difficult-to-understand asset classes.

[hpcg] 29/5/2020 09:28

Makinbuks - they didn't do anything. Have you not seen the round trip in financial instruments of just about all types? It's only really the bottom end of CLOs impaired, and select equities, bonds, leveraged loans and ABS in the sectors worst hit.

[alpal2] 29/5/2020 09:21

See my post #215: My guess of April NAV was $18 vs actual $23. I'm happy to be wrong but do wish the directors would do something to bring the share price closer to NAV. Does not look like the buy-back tender will achieve much to this end. And cutting the dividend does not help.

[makinbuks] 29/5/2020 09:19

Can anyone imagine how they managed to increase the value of non asset manager PE by $32.8m? Reported discount 60% but no change to the share price. clearly they have a massive credibility issue here. Disappointing lack of commentary

[alpal2] 14/5/2020 10:50

Share price dropping like a stone............. Doesn't look good for the settlement price of the tender. If people prepared to sell at $8,00 now; does this indicate tender settlement of below that?

[chuckol] 11/5/2020 08:47

I think you may be whistling in the dark, Specto. I sympathise with you because you've already taken a huge hit here(and in another dozen or so similar shares). I mean wouldn't it be better if you confronted the sad fact that a drop of over 40% odd is a massive blow to your portfolio, such as it is now.

I think, for the time being at least, you should take that temp job as a Queue Marshall at Morrisons.

[spectoacc] 10/5/2020 20:41

Agree re divi, assume they think they'll do far better recycling the cash, but it's our reward for putting up with the cavernous discount & management rewards.

[spectoacc] 09/5/2020 19:54

Quite like the notion of a tender at a price so low you might want to buy rather than sell :)

[alpal2] 09/5/2020 16:13

Settlement price for tender: Clearly, those currently selling at +/- $8-70 think that settlement will be below that; or they need cash urgently.
My guess for settlement = $9-00. But I also think shares will trade below that after tender ends. Let's see if I am close....

[rambutan2] 07/5/2020 21:31

Yes, as a long term holder I'm very happy at tenders that are accretive to nav and which help get rid of stale/desperate holders.

[westofengland] 07/5/2020 16:24

Like Spec and qvg,I thought Conference call was sound. If they can clear some stock out the way through the tender, that will be beneficial.Otherwise, we get used to 40cent dividend which is better than some.

[skyship] 07/5/2020 15:51

Another rubbish tender offer - from $7.75-$9.50; ie likely to be at a discount to the current share price These tenders are usually conducted at or near to NAV - not so with this outfit it would seem!

[qvg] 30/4/2020 16:19

Spec
thanks. Like you, i missed the start of the call. I heard a slightly different number on valuation dates, from my notes "Valuation of most investments is at 31/3/20. Time lag for only 10% of assets." But will listen again once it is on website

[spectoacc] 30/4/2020 15:50

Missed the start but some really interesting, would be worth listening to the recording on the website when finished.

Eg Property holdings - yes, not revalued at 31st March, but in total only 20% of the co.

Polygon - why don't they bring it in house, as by far the main investor? Various reasons why not.

Edit - Finished now, hopefully recording/transcript on the website soon. Left with the impression they're doing well/are on top of things, but when is it ever any different after listening to one of these or speaking to management.

[spectoacc] 30/4/2020 15:43

United Kingdom Toll-Free: 0800 358 9473 / PIN: 71434804#

[spectoacc] 30/4/2020 15:42

Dialed into the conf call, freephone number, on now.

[alpal2] 30/4/2020 12:04

qcg: I will be v happy if you're right at $23. However, I would be ecstatic if the share price discount to NAV were substantially reduced. I don't think the share buy-back will help. I strongly believe that if the directors' remuneration was based on share price [rather than NAV] then we would see much better returns to all investors.